NICEIC Certification Scheme Is the NICEIC right ?

[Lofty]

Hi Everyone,
We had our annual NICEIC visit last week which we passed, so no problem there !! However during discussions with the NICEIC rep the following point came up.

In a kitchen the 'Electricians Guide to Building Regs incl Part 'P'', the little green book, shows on page 57 the distances that accesories should be fitted in relation to the edge of hobs and sinks, e.g. 300mm min. the rep said that as far as the NICEIC are concerned theyONLY follow the 17th regs and the above is NOT stated in the big red book and as long as switches etc. are not directly over the heat source then they can be up to 50mm away. likewise the NICEIC have no issue with sockets etc. being fitted over draining boards.
All he said that we had to do was inform the customer of any potential problem, you know like the electric kettle ending up in the sink full of water.


Around our way the building inspectors can be pretty hot on ALL regs not just building but plumbing and electrics as well

So is he right ?; has anyone else come across this with the NICEIC ?


Regards,
Lofty

 

[Spudnik]

In a word yes, although YOU should be the judge of the correct positioning as its your name on the cert.

Personally i would put them at 300.

Remember the Electricians Guide To The Building Regs is exactly that. A guide.

 

[baldsparkies]

BS 7671 is not a statutory document, it is a guidance by the iee for good electrical practice. Part P as far as I am aware is statutory. Why not phone the NIC for clarification, dont mention your reasons for this just ask the question as a general enquiry so you dont influence the answer.

 

[Spudnik]

Part P as far as I am aware is statutory.

Indeed, which in turn, kinda makes 7671 a legal document.

All this does my head in.

 

[baldsparkies]

In a word yes, although YOU should be the judge of the correct positioning as its your name on the cert.

Personally i would put them at 300.

Remember the Electricians Guide To The Building Regs is exactly that. A guide.

Sorry Jason came in behind you with my reply and didn't see your post, I bet its going to be one of those,depends on your point of view questions. I would also go with the 300mm guide line, but maybe its down to the individual on this one. I bet if you ring the NIC you will get different answers depending on who you are talking to.

 

[Spudnik]

I bet if you ring the NIC you will get different answers depending on who you are talking to.

Aint that the truth!!

 

[ezzzekiel]

this is a stupid question of course the nic are right they make there own rules, didnt you know you have to comply with them long before you consult any other legislation ...ahem!!

 

[Lofty]

Hi Everyone,
Many thanks for the replies.
Your thoughts are basically the same as mine on this one. Yes the Electricians guide is just that a guide but it's a guide to the building regs and I bet that building control would argue the point that 300mm is there for a good reason. I myself always do put them at 300 , as yes it's my name on the cert and not his . The point came up via another query. I had a kitchen fitter remove a steel box chased into the wall and faceplate for a dishwasher and re-mount it inside the cupboard again completely against the Guide again . The NIC man said no problem as long as they are not fitted to the usally thin hardboard back panel.

Best regards,

 

[ezzzekiel]

This is always going to present a problem, labc inspectors will pull something from the buil regs or even from imagination and you as an electrician have to prove them wrong, personally i find it much easier to try to work with these guys just to make life easier.....

 

[Lofty]

Hi Ezzzekiel,
You and me both I think. I'm for the quiet life these days althogh it would be nice would it not if all the govening bodies talked to each other and then we could all sing from the same songsheet.

Cheers,
Lofty.

 

[ezzzekiel]

yes agree there is nothing worse than someone who knows sod all telling you how it should be done. Looking forward to the day when electricians are just left to get on with it

 

[flukey]

Hi Ezzzekiel,
You and me both I think. I'm for the quiet life these days althogh it would be nice would it not if all the govening bodies talked to each other and then we could all sing from the same songsheet.

Cheers,
Lofty.

now thats a nice thought

 

[kung]

Sorry Jason came in behind you with my reply and didn't see your post, I bet its going to be one of those,depends on your point of view questions. I would also go with the 300mm guide line, but maybe its down to the individual on this one. I bet if you ring the NIC you will get different answers depending on who you are talking to.

Think i will ring them also soon as i get this dam plug out of the sink socket grrrr the mrs must have squirted fairy liquid over it ! just wash it off ! its ok ive got the marrigolds on !

 

[Lofty]

Hi Kung,
Hope those marigolds are VDE rated !!

Cheers lofty.

 

[kung]

Hi Lofty
No its ok their being used in the kitchen sink so rated for that zone !
Regards
Kung.

 

[kiwisparks]

Hi Lofty,I stick to the building regs and have no problems,the new edition(17th update) is worth having,the kitchen layout is on p61,you had me confused!!,its bad enough as it is!.Lots of answers in the new edition ie pages 55/56 answers some of the rcd on cooker- recent question!

 

[Lofty]

Hi kiwisparks,
I always try to follow the regs as well, after all theye are therefor a reason.
Thanks for the page info I'll check it out.
Cherrs Lofty.

 

[platty1005]

Hi Lofty,
do you have access to the NICEIC book "from the helpline" Question 18 page 50 refers to Socket outlets near sinks. NICEIC Answer = BS7671 does not specify a minimum distance between a sink and a socket-outlet. for domestic premises , to avoid the effects of splashing as a rule of thumb BS1363 sockets ideally should be installed 1000mm away from the sink. In many instances this is impractical, and where this is the case 300mm is the minimum acceptable distance.
Bottom Line NICEIC say 300mm minimum distance

So it seems to me NICEIC assessors should read their own NICEIC publications and be consistent to the companies they are assessing.

 

[Lofty]

Hi Platty1005,
No I don't have that publication yet !! but will work on it.
Thanks for the info though that's really very useful.

Cheers,
Lofty

 

[Darkwood]

If the customer is anything like my other half then a socket over a drainer would be p... wet through which aint an ideal situation so all round i think common sense should prevail and 300 mm sounds about right to me irrespective of any closer allowences.

If the customer is anything like my other half then a socket over a drainer would be p... wet through which aint an ideal situation so all round i think common sense should prevail and 300 mm sounds about right to me irrespective of any closer allowences.

p.s. I do my share of the washing up dont want to sound sexist.