Discuss Isolator before the meter in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:   American Electrical Advice Forum

Reaction score
2
I wish to find out what’s people’s thoughts on isolators before the meter? Typically they are installed after the meter and before the CU, but does anyone know if there is any reason why it cannot be placed before the meter? Aside from what revenue protection like or not, is there any legal or regulations as to why one cannot be in place before the meter? Further, can you detail where the responsibility ends for the DNO supply, is it at the point of the main fuse etc and after which it’s consumers? Or does consumers start after the meter etc? Thanks
 
Only ever seen fuse---meter---isolator---consumer unit

In that set up, DNO would control up to the supply side of the isolator. Anything sealed.
The load side of the isolator and everything else would be the customer.

Having the isolator before the meter just invites tampering to bypass the meter, and payment to the supplier
 
The new meters (NO they aren't Smart, despite what's said) have loss of supply detection / reporting so if the isolator was before the meter the supplier would call in the DNO to investigate everytime someone turned it off.

In a normal Domestic installation;
DNO are responsible up to and including the Fuse / cutout.
The energy supplier is responsible for the tails to the meter and the meter.
The Consumer is responsible for the tails to the C.U and the C.U onwards.

It's gets more involved in a multi dwelling property where meters are in the flats remote from the cutout.
 
For sure, but is there any regulatory or legal reason why it would preclude such an arrangement?

s13 of the Theft Act 1968;

"A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted, any electricity shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years"


The statutory offence known as "Abstracting Electricity"

By putting an unauthorised isolator before the meter, the DNO may try and go for the above offence being committed, same with meter bypassing.
 
On modern/new installs properties where there are separate flats etc with in one building a single means of isolation is required after the DNO's head, from that we go to a ryefield board and then that goes to the clients meter, isolator etc
So yes isolation can before the meter but not on a single dwelling (as far as i know)
 
From the cutout to the meter, the domain is that of the metering company,so no other equipment should be there.
[automerge]1571169985[/automerge]
On modern/new installs properties where there are separate flats etc with in one building a single means of isolation is required after the DNO's head, from that we go to a ryefield board and then that goes to the clients meter, isolator etc
So yes isolation can before the meter but not on a single dwelling (as far as i know)
Yes which has red links to each flat from multiway.
 
Last edited:
This would be down to the DNO and supplier to agree under MOCOPA.
 
From the cutout to the meter, the domain is that of the metering company,so no other equipment should be there.
[automerge]1571169985[/automerge]

Yes which has red links to each flat from multiway.
The isolator i fit after the head and before the ryefield is mine, i supplied it, i fitted it and i can turn it on and off........
 
The isolator i fit after the head and before the ryefield is mine, i supplied it, i fitted it and i can turn it on and off........
Normal set up, my point on last post was with red heads on this set up, it is classed as service head , no isolator would be fitted between that an the meter.
 
s13 of the Theft Act 1968;

"A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted, any electricity shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years"


The statutory offence known as "Abstracting Electricity"

By putting an unauthorised isolator before the meter, the DNO may try and go for the above offence being committed, same with meter bypassing.

They would have to provided evidence for the ‘dishonest’, to prove that offence.

Altering the installation for electrical purposes, does not create the mens rea to commit this offence IMO.
 
Inserting an isolator between cut out and isolator wouldn’t amount to Theft or Abstracting Electricity. The only offence that could be debatable would be Criminal Damage as you're technically altering property that’s not yours....me lud! He says with his detective head on :oops: Which also could apply to cutting the seal on the DNO cutout without permission.
 
For sure, but is there any regulatory or legal reason why it would preclude such an arrangement?

I don't think there is any regulation or law. However those tails are the property of the supplier and subject to their rules for what can or cannot be installed.

The simple answer will be no it can't be fitted there because the owner of those tails says it can't.
 
That is true but there are also other offences committed;

Theft Act 1968: Section 13 (for abstraction of electricity)

Theft Act 1968: Section 17 (false accounting – mainly applies to businesses)

Theft Act 1978: Section 1 (dishonestly obtain services by deception) and Section 2 (evasion of liability by deception)

Criminal Damage Act 1971: Section 1 (causing criminal damage)

Criminal Law Act 1977: Section 1 (conspiracy)

Accessories and Abettors Act 1861: Section 8 (aiding and abetting)

Fraud Act 2006: Section 11 (obtaining services dishonestly)

The Utilities Act 2000 Chapter 27 Schedule 4 (supplies of electricity stolen illegally and damage to electrical plant)

DNOs also have powers under the following legislation;

The Electricity Act 1989 provides for the following,

Schedule 6, paragraph 4-11 (see Utilities Act 2000 Chapter 27 Schedule 4 below)

Schedule 7, paragraph 10 (meters to be kept in proper order)

Schedule 7, paragraph 11 (interference with meters)

Schedule 7, paragraph 12 (prepayment meters)

The Utilities Act 2000 Chapter 27 Schedule 4 (substituted to take the place of the Electricity Act 1989 Schedule 6) provides:

paragraph 4 (supplies of electricity illegally taken)

paragraph 5 (restoration of connection without consent)

paragraph 6 (damage to electrical plant)

paragraphs 7, 8 and 10 (rights of entry)

With the above in mind it would be relatively straightforward for the DNO to get the requires proofs, the onus would then be on you to defend the isolators position, rather than the DNO to prove the offence, cutting seals and reselling for example may go under paragraph 6 and 27 (damage to plant).
 
That is true but there are also other offences committed;

Theft Act 1968: Section 13 (for abstraction of electricity)

Theft Act 1968: Section 17 (false accounting – mainly applies to businesses)

Theft Act 1978: Section 1 (dishonestly obtain services by deception) and Section 2 (evasion of liability by deception)

Criminal Damage Act 1971: Section 1 (causing criminal damage)

Criminal Law Act 1977: Section 1 (conspiracy)

Accessories and Abettors Act 1861: Section 8 (aiding and abetting)

Fraud Act 2006: Section 11 (obtaining services dishonestly)

The Utilities Act 2000 Chapter 27 Schedule 4 (supplies of electricity stolen illegally and damage to electrical plant)

DNOs also have powers under the following legislation;

The Electricity Act 1989 provides for the following,

Schedule 6, paragraph 4-11 (see Utilities Act 2000 Chapter 27 Schedule 4 below)

Schedule 7, paragraph 10 (meters to be kept in proper order)

Schedule 7, paragraph 11 (interference with meters)

Schedule 7, paragraph 12 (prepayment meters)

The Utilities Act 2000 Chapter 27 Schedule 4 (substituted to take the place of the Electricity Act 1989 Schedule 6) provides:

paragraph 4 (supplies of electricity illegally taken)

paragraph 5 (restoration of connection without consent)

paragraph 6 (damage to electrical plant)

paragraphs 7, 8 and 10 (rights of entry)

With the above in mind it would be relatively straightforward for the DNO to get the requires proofs, the onus would then be on you to defend the isolators position, rather than the DNO to prove the offence, cutting seals and reselling for example may go under paragraph 6 and 27 (damage to plant).

I don’t thing any of those offences, are aimed at bono fide installation of an isolator, albeit in this instance it doesn’t make any sense.

As most appear summary/statutory offences, criminal prosecution would require evidence to be provided to CPS, for a prosecution to proceed.
 
I think it would boil down to being able to defend the isolator position (as there would be no reason it couldn't go after the meter),

Installing consumer equipment before the meter males for smoking gun as that is often the first sign of shenanigans with meter bypassing etc.

Garnering evidence would be the easy bit given the DNOs powers above, it would then put the onus on the customer/spark to defend thier action.
 

Reply to Isolator before the meter in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock