It just feels wrong

[Doomed]

Inspection of property.
lighting grid switch outside downstairs loo, 3 switches.
One intermediate for stairs lighting, one one pole 2 way for downstairs corridor lighting.
Its the 3rd switch that bothers me. Its a double pole switch, and they have used one pole for the switched live for the loo, and the other pole for the switched live for the fan, the power for the fan is off the 2nd floor ring main via a 3A fuse switch spur, and the local fan isolator switch is after the double pole switch.
This means that if a less suspecting person, or even a DIY home owner turned off even all the lighting circuits there would still be a live wire present for the fan off the ring main.
This just seems wrong to me, but can't think of a reg that applies to it, can you?

 

[Barry White]

Kitchen grid switches fed by separate circuits too pose the same risk. The circuit you describe is not ideal but I believe it complies. Wonder why they came off the ring?

 

[snowhead]

It's no different really to someone turning off a light switch thinking it's safe to remove a loop in ceiling rose.
A less informed or DIYer may not realise the implications.
Safe isolation is the answer.

 

[Wilko]

Would it be noted as a C3 improvement perhaps ? (to move 3A fcu for fan onto the lighting cct)

 

[Lucien Nunes]

This is a situation where I would like to see an 'isolate all supplies' warning label stuck on the grid, perhaps with an additional note stating which circuits are present.

 

[Toneyz]

Make a note of it on the report .IMO I would of put on lighting circuit to that room.Could put mark on inside of switch

 

[hightower]

My uncle likes to power hall and landing lights off the same circuit on rewires so that there's only one circuit present at the two way switches. Don't believe there's any regulations to back this up but I see it as a good practice.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I would prefer them to be on different circuits, preferably different RCDs, so that a fault or trip due to a failed lamp is unlikely to extinguish all light on the stairs. Infirm people may be at risk trying to negotiate stairs in semi-darkness, whereas an electrician should never be at significant risk working on a light switch.

 

[Octopus]

Surely this is no different to 2 way switching of a hall or landing light where they are on different circuits.

Or in a local hall where the lights are on different phases.... Too.

 

[westward10]

I don't even think it requires a notice, a skilled person should never assume the presence of only a single circuit.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Of course you should never assume. I dislike notices warning about things that are obvious or easily anticipated, because they distract and desensitise people to warning signs. A single rocker switch controlling one power and one lighting circuit is not obvious enough for the warning to be inherently redundant and it might just save the man who is in a tearing hurry, who flips off all the lighting MCBs and tests but only on one pole of the switch, from a nasty surprise.

 

[Octopus]

Of course you should never assume. I dislike notices warning about things that are obvious or easily anticipated, because they distract and desensitise people to warning signs. A single rocker switch controlling one power and one lighting circuit is not obvious enough for the warning to be inherently redundant and it might just save the man who is in a tearing hurry, who flips off all the lighting MCBs and tests but only on one pole of the switch, from a nasty surprise.

Like those pesky dual colour cable warning labels. FFS we should ALL stop putting them on CU's

 

[westward10]

Like those pesky dual colour cable warning labels. FFS we should ALL stop putting them on CU's

Music to my ears.

 

[Octopus]

Music to my ears.

Last CU change I did, I didn't bother with a dual colour warning label,..... tin hat on!

 

[westward10]

Put a nice new board in then make it look crap by covering it in labels which are pointless.

 

[Octopus]

I might just raise this at my Stroma assessment in the Spring.

The cables changed colours over 10 years ago FFS!

If you don't know what colours do what, you shouldn't fiddle with them!

 

[Octopus]

I've created a thread and a poll - lets see what the members on here think....

Dual colour warning labels - http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/dual-colour-warning-labels.117102/#post-1223534

 

[Andy78]

I might just raise this at my Stroma assessment in the Spring.

The cables changed colours over 10 years ago FFS!

If you don't know what colours do what, you shouldn't fiddle with them!

I think their view will be that any non-conformance with BS7671 will be something they require evidence of being rectified.

You might be better off aiming these views at the IET and see if you can persuade them to take this one out of the 18th ?

 

[Lastminuteandy]

I don't even think it requires a notice, a skilled person should never assume the presence of only a single circuit.

If you aint tested it before touching it then you aint safe
.....and just a small aside.....my tester broke once and a live one slipped through (some plonker managed to run a live wire to an en-suite DIY job that did not go through any of the house breakers). It touched the handle on a radio and exploded it!

 

[7029 dave]

Safe isolation/ prove dead is the answer.