Jib wage

[Dannyboisparky1]

Hi I just wanna know where I stand with my wages. I have recently become an approved spark.My company is a member of the JIB and have told me that due to the current climate I will not be getting the rate, despite having 8 sparks on that rate and recently taking on an approved spark giving them the relevant rate. Looking for answers on if I've got a good case to fight for this, please help

 

[UNG]

When I worked for a JIB member company many many years ago it was made clear they operated with a certain number of approved sparks and a certain number of sparks if you wanted to become approved and they had enough approved sparks the only option was to move on to get the rate or stay on the sparks rate

Don't know if your company operates any policy like that although in the current climate if you push too hard for the rate you may just get shown the door

 

[Farmelectrics]

If you've got a jib approved card they should pay you thet rate now you can take it up with the union if you wanted your firm might get shut of you but that's the gamble

 

[Arnold Layne]

Dannybois, Farmelectrics is correct. If you have passed the C&G to qualify as an Approved and you work for a JIB Employer you are entitled to the JIB rate and the Union is the mechanism to enforce payment. However there is an obvious risk as the company you work for seem to have taken a position i.e. they are not prepared to pay. I am a little concerned by your comment that they have recently taken on an Approved and are paying the rate. Just how recent is this? And is it before or after you qualified? And has anything changed significantly since they recruited this Approved Electrician? You can talk to the Union. They will contact your Employer and if needs be take them through the JIB disputes procedure, however before you do this consider the answers to the questions I've raised as undoubtedly there is a risk. good luck!

 

[Dannyboisparky1]

Not been told of any policy like that. My company wants us all approved and have provided the 2391 course but don't want to pay the rate. I was happy to leave it up until they employed the approved spark and gave him the rate. It's the principle!
Fair point about pushing too hard which I won't do. Thanks for your advice.

 

[Dannyboisparky1]

They employed three sparks about a month ago due to increase of work load only one was approved. They took on a approved spark two years ago and we have a few approved sparks which have been with the company for years. Currently I'm the only approved spark not on the rate. I qualified in feb but taken time getting my jib card I put the rate form in last week. Nothing has changed in the company to my knowledge but you know what big companies are like they can keep things quiet for a while but we have a lot of work with a contract for a housing association.
Although I can see a risk with the situation as explained anybody would dispute this decision wouldn't they?

 

[Risteard]

They are obliged to pay the rate otherwise it is a breach of contract and a criminal offence. Don't let them away with it - they can't get rid of you. They are breaking the law and should be thrown out of the JIB.

 

[UNG]

They are obliged to pay the rate otherwise it is a breach of contract and a criminal offence. Don't let them away with it - they can't get rid of you. They are breaking the law and should be thrown out of the JIB.

They may be breaking JIB rules as for breaking the law not aware of any law that says the JIB rates must be paid

 

[oldboy]

Hi I just wanna know where I stand with my wages. I have recently become an approved spark.My company is a member of the JIB and have told me that due to the current climate I will not be getting the rate, despite having 8 sparks on that rate and recently taking on an approved spark giving them the relevant rate. Looking for answers on if I've got a good case to fight for this, please help

Can you clarify when & how please (in red). This is relevant as years ago you could have the paper qualification but not the actual card. It was the case that approved status would only be granted with the sponsorship of the employer, (a subjective evaluation of your ability to supervise other sparks. Programming work, allocating work, & resolving relevant issues arising from that work), a situation that could be manipulated to suit the prevailing wind.

 

[Risteard]

They may be breaking JIB rules as for breaking the law not aware of any law that says the JIB rates must be paid

The contracts would surely stipulate that they are JIB rates.

 

[Dannyboisparky1]

I have completed an apprenticeship to 16th(2005)nvq3, am2, 17th edition (2010) and the 2391(2011). I was sponsored by my supervisor to get the jib approved card.

 

[oldboy]

I have completed an apprenticeship to 16th(2005)nvq3, am2, 17th edition (2010) and the 2391(2011). I was sponsored by my supervisor to get the jib approved card.

Did an engineer of the company or senior manager also counter sign your application? The old qualifying period regarding experience was at least 3 years from qualification as a spark with all relevant exams in place.

I am playing devils advocate to some extent

 

[oldboy]

Take a look at this link

Joint Industry Board

 

[Arnold Layne]

There are a number of interesting points here. UNG is correct there is no criminal offence in not paying the JIB rate for the qualification. It is not acceptable, however under the JIB rules. The Company can of course, in the last resort, refuse to abide by the rules and leave the JIB, but no criminal law will have been breached. Secondly the time requirement of the Approved grade has gone. An Electrician simply has to take the relevant C&G course (2391) and once completed is entitled to the grade under JIB rules.If I have understood you correctly they took on the Approved spark 2 years ago, that in contracting terms is a long time, as things change in this industry in weeks,if not days. You say there is a big contract with a Housing Association, when was it awarded? how long does it run, when does it come up for renewal. One possibility is that the company's workload has decreased since they took this Approved guy on, there may be less certainty. That would be one possible explanation for your company's actions. Not an excuse..just an explanation. It is your shout, but as others have advised it seems to me you have two options; go to the company and explain that you are entitled, under the JIB, rules but ask if there is a particular problem ( an understanding approach should get a fair hear hearing i.e. you are being understanding but you are entitled to an answer). Otherwise it is the confrontational approach, go to the Union and insist on your rights under the JIB. However that is a risk strategy and if it were me I would try to find out from the company the reasons why, whilst letting them know politely that you understand your rights under the JIB. But be in no doubt, in law you have no recourse, you may however be able to bring a constructive dismissal case under an industrial tribunal in the event that you leave or are let go over this issue, but they cannot force the company to pay you the rate nor can they force them to reinstate you in the event that lose your job..so think carefully before taking action. My personal advice to you would be to start asking questions.

 

[Smudge]

i raised a similar issue with the sjib a couple of years ago and a small extract of the email i got back...

We advise SELECT and SJIB member companies to follow the SJIB National Working Rules; however these are only as a guide to employers. What you and your employer agreed in your written contract is correct and the 37.5 hours per week rule would not apply in your case unless otherwise stated that they are fully following the SJIB National Working Rules.

Note in the email about the rules being guidelines ONLY.

I made it clear to my company at the time that i would accept their ruling, but i wasn't happy about it. When i was later 'poached' by a different firm, my then employer offered me the rate and then some. Unfortunately for him, i had already made up my mind and left. I left and still managed to keep in good stead with him as i didn't/don't want to burn any bridges.

 

[flyingsausage]

You have a case under employment law that you are doing the same job as other workers and have the same qualifications but are getting paid less.
This is the route the Union would take or also go for age discrimination - by that I mean that you are younger than the other workers and they think that they can give give you less pay because of this.

Smudge is quite right in what he is saying about the SJIB rates being a guide only.
We have to remember that the SJIB is totally indepentant off the JIB and sets it's own rules.So the JIB rules could be totally different.

 

[madmac]

Are you a member of Unite the Union? If not, then join!
You say you are an Approved JIB Electrician, well then, you are entitled to be paid the correct rates of pay!
This company are taking advantage of your inexperience and this is why we have unions, they have the expertise to represent your views properly and legally!
Sausage is right, they are in breach of employment law as you are not being paid what your work colleagues with same qualifications/grade are being paid.
Also, although the JIB/SJIB National Working Rules are used as guidelines, they ARE also enforceable under employment law as they constitute your terms and conditions of employment and National Working Agreements have special recognition in employment law!
Involve the union with immediate effect and don't fear for your job, you are full time employed and are protected as long as you do things by the book i.e. use the union and they will take charge of your situation and follow the JIB Disputes Procedure if the company don't pay you correct rates and they will also force them to pay you backdated pay from when you became "Approved".
Be under no illusion, the company are chancing their arm and will NOT simply agree to pay you just because you want them to, this company are showing their true colours by not giving you the correct rate in the first place and it's they who have created this unnecessary situation in the first place!!!
This is what we pay our union dues for, otherwise there's no point in being in the union and there's no point in the company being signatory to the JIB Agreement!!!
All the best and don't back down!

 

[flyingsausage]

The difference of a paying one man an extra pound odd and hour he is due is next to nothing for the out goings of a contractor with serveral sparks on their books.
It is nothing short of a slap in the face.

 

[Dannyboisparky1]

Ok thanks for all your views on this. Would I still be able to go ahead with my claim under employment laws ect. If my company pulled out of the jib. E.g because I'm doing same job same grade and so on

 

[mogga]

sorry to say it Macn Sausage I personaly feel wha tyou are saying is corrrect in a perfect world BUT rais something like this with employment rights ect ect ect YOU will fear for your job or you will get the cruddy jobs to cheese you off and there is very little anyone can do about it