Discuss Kitchen Cooker Isolation Switch, Dishwasher And Washing Machine Spurs in the Electrical Appliances Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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sparkysean

Hi i'm quoting for a job that involves:

  • The moving of a cooker isolation switch
  • The installation of extra single socket's for dishwasher, microwave, and hob
The cooker isolation switch is moving and needs to be extended around 2 metres, if possible I would like to have a single switch built into the switched unit. The cooker is 16A (3500W) . It's fed from a bs3036 30A fuse with a 6.0mm cable, estimated 25M cable length. The cooker unit has a built in microwave which will need a single unswitched socket. There is also an electric hob and dishwasher that will need single sockets. At the moment there is one switched spur above the worktop that feeds the washing machine. My client is getting his walls tiled so would prefer to have no switched spurs or have them hidden in cupboards, is this still allowed? Is it acceptable to incorporate the new single sockets into the ring and do away with the spurs altogether?

Any feedback would be great and also regs numbers always come in handy.

many thanks
 
Hi i'm quoting for a job that involves:

  • The moving of a cooker isolation switch
  • The installation of extra single socket's for dishwasher, microwave, and hob
The cooker isolation switch is moving and needs to be extended around 2 metres,Is there any issue with zoning to extending the cable.

if possible I would like to have a single switch built into the switched unit. That as lost me i'm afraid.

The cooker is 16A (3500W) . It's fed from a bs3036 30A fuse with a 6.0mm cable, estimated 25M cable length. Even though you are only moving the cable 2 metres if it is buried and unless you fit an earthed protection that cable will need to be RCd protected.

The cooker unit has a built in microwave which will need a single unswitched socket. Even if it's built into the cooker does it still need a separate supply.

There is also an electric hob and dishwasher that will need single sockets. will that hob be ok on just a 13amp socket

At the moment there is one switched spur above the worktop that feeds the washing machine. My client is getting his walls tiled so would prefer to have no switched spurs or have them hidden in cupboards, is this still allowed? There is no need to have FCU as a BS 1363 socket outlet can be used for isolation just as long as you leave it accessible. Yes you can fit it in a cuboard if that is the best option though not perhaps my first choice

Is it acceptable to incorporate the new single sockets into the ring and do away with the spurs altogether? Yes again though I would not want to put a hob, a dishwasher then perhaps kettle, toaster. etc on a single ring.

Any feedback would be great and also regs numbers always come in handy.

many thanks

As I'm sure you are aware as this is a kitchen the work is notifiable
 
New consumer unit, dual RCD, add "visible" isolation switches for the accessories as its a requirement under the regs, and yes incorporate extra sockets into the ring. While you're at it I'd recommend that you replace most of the ring cable in the kitchen to do a thorough, professional job.

You don't mention the lights butif he's changing these too, they will need RCD protection.

Good luck.
 
To be honest Murdoch there is no reason to change the CU ad hoc. The customer wants a a few minor alterations which may entail wiring either a new ring final or Radial for the kitchen and a cooker point moved.

What maybe a few hundred pounds could turn out to be counter productive. Agree a new CU maybe safer but so might a complete rewire,where would you stop. IMO I would give the customer choices and advice, but at the end of the day, espicially in todays situation, a good safe job is the best way forward.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. So just to get this clear It HAS to have and RCD on the cooker circuit, and you don't HAVE to have FCU's for the hob, dishwasher, and microwave, there ok by law on a ring main.??

great responses
 
The cooker will not need to have RCD protection if it dosen't incorporate a socket outlet as per Regulation 411.3.3 in the CCU or the cable is installed as per regulation 522.6.6. As you said in original OP you are relocating it 2 metres and if your burying the cable, and not to the regulations then yes it will need RCD protecting. Though you may find that the manufacter will ask for RCD protection so then you will need to fit.

Though appendix 15 in the regs is deemed just informative it does advise that loads ie oven and hobs not to be connected on a ring final circuit, as your the designer then you will have to decide if you think having these loads on a ring final is ok. As I stated IMO it is not a very good design as you could overload the ring, and would rethink the installation.
 
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Thanks again i've decided against the built in cooker socket and am just going to add an extra socket. I think i'll rebuild the ring and have fcu's in the cupboards near the appliances, cheers guys
 
you could do away with FCUs and fit the appliance sockets in the cupboards adjacent to each appliance. as long as you've got local isolation. e.g. plug and socket is a means of isolation.
 
so if the sockets are in an accessable cupboards you need no spurs, but if they are hidden behind the units youn needs fcu's is that right.

p.s guys i'm just back from a 2 year stint in maintenance hence the lack of knowledge give me a month and i'll be fully up to scratch
 
so if the sockets are in an accessable cupboards you need no spurs, but if they are hidden behind the units youn needs fcu's is that right.

p.s guys i'm just back from a 2 year stint in maintenance hence the lack of knowledge give me a month and i'll be fully up to scratch


it's all down to local accessible means of isolation. as long as the plug/socket is accessible..........
 
Really shouldn't hide a socket behind a cupboard as you need to get access to if for maintenance and testing. What some sparks do is have an unswitched single sockets behind a dishwasher or washing machine that are controlled from either an FCU or a 20amp double pole switch above the counter. In fact quite a few modern kitchens have a bank of 20amp double pole switches controlling single sockets under the counter, and they look quite smart.

If you have an accessible socket. ie one you can un plug without dismantling the kitchen or heaving out washing machines then yes there is no need for a FCU or switch.
 
when i was installing them about two years ago it was perfectly acceptable to have no fcu and a single socket behind the unit, is this still ok? if it is i will do this
 
when i was installing them about two years ago it was perfectly acceptable to have no fcu and a single socket behind the unit, is this still ok? if it is i will do this

Single socket behind the unit - no, single socket with plug "accessible" yes, however the interpretation of accessible is contencious!
 
also, with a lot of appliances, esp. the integrated ones, there's insufficient room behind them for a plug/socket. and if socket is behind a heavy washing machine it is not accessible. imagine if the machine caught fire, would you wrestle with it to unplug with your short and curlies smouldering. i think not.
 

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