Kitchen downlighters - ceiling void full of insulation. plastic pipes, venting

[zippy]

Hi, partly through a job to fit 18 mains voltage downlighters to kitchen. They are fire-rated and designed for low energy lamps.

Trying to avoid taking up floors above as house is new and the floor boarding is squares of chipboard type material that is tongue & groove on all edges and nailed down so a real pain to remove. Working from below, located all joists and marked out positions of all holes and drilled out.

Having drilled out, the ceiling void above is full with insulation, and also plastic water piping and various sections of venting from the extractors in kitchen and downstairs toilet.

Now worried about heat build-up around the sections of the downlighters within the void. Can move away the insulation from around the holes, but unsure about the palstic water piping and very thin plastic venting.

Have ensured at least 3 inch clearance from any joists, but was wondering about all the other stuff up there and what clearance it may need as some of it will be difficult to move without a lot of work.

Seen thermal caps on the web that seem to sit on top of the downlighters and are sealed with mastic.

Anyone have any advice they can give me on how to proceed?

Regards

 

[telectrix]

if you are using LED lamps, you should not have a problem with heat dissipation.

 

[zippy]

no ... not using LED ... they are the mains voltage low-enery type.

 

[telectrix]

even with cfl's the heat produced is quite a small amount. ensure clearance around the fittings. wire 1 up on the bench and see how much heat is produced.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

even with cfl's the heat produced is quite a small amount. ensure clearance around the fittings. wire 1 up on the bench and see how much heat is produced.

Love it! tried that with a halogen and a can - red hot !

 

[telectrix]

should buy your beer in bottles then. LOL.

 

[zippy]

even with cfl's the heat produced is quite a small amount. ensure clearance around the fittings. wire 1 up on the bench and see how much heat is produced.

How much clearance would you recommend? For the insulation I have no problem in pushing it way back ... would sooner lose heat than risk a fire! But some of the plastic water piping and venting may be more tricky ... how far away from the downlight body would be needed?

 

[Deleted member 19807]

How much clearance would you recommend? For the insulation I have no problem in pushing it way back ... would sooner lose heat than risk a fire! But some of the plastic water piping and venting may be more tricky ... how far away from the downlight body would be needed?

that would depend on how hot the lamps got. do the test and then you will know.

 

[telectrix]

if no appreciable heat from the lamps, then it don't matter how close (within reason) the plastic crap is.

 

[zippy]

Thanks Folks ... I'll do a bench test first with a single light.

 

[Rockingit]

This has to be a brilliant example of why we love LED's!! Just a thought - if the fixtures you have are GU10's but producing too much heat, you can always swap out the lamp for an LED GU10 replacement. Osram do some good ones (in as much as they fit in the can and don't have a whirring fan - unlike some!). They still produce a fair bit of heat, but not as much. Other than that, you'll have to bite the bullet and tell the customer it won't work and swap to a complete LED unit - Haler do a fantastic one that's really small with the transformer on the arm and I used in exactly this same situation a few weeks ago - 14 in a kitchen underneath a bathroom with a tiled floor.

I've not tried it myself, but I've heard of blokes using high-temperature silicon to smear on close-by pipes and things to insulate them; have my doubts, personally!!

 

[wade88]

Have you considered fitting fire hoods around the down lighters you are concerned about? you can pick them up for about £10 from screw fix...so def well worth the investment with the added piece of mind you can just crack on and get the lights in where you need to without the risk of a fire later on.

Screwfix links dont work but i just had a look and if you just search fire hoods you will get a few options up buddy.

 

[La Poste]

My sister has a flat roof above her kitchen, she said her lights suddenly flash and then blow an MCB. When I looked I found old type down lighters (no fire protection). The GU10 50W halogen bulbs had melted the supply cables, dead short line to earth.

I had a look at LED down lighters today, they sure are bright and no way as hot.

I'm deciding on the best thing to do, buying a complete unit is expensive but you can get dimmable bulbs at half decent prices but I'm not sure which is the best brand.

 

[zippy]

Have you considered fitting fire hoods around the down lighters you are concerned about? you can pick them up for about £10 from screw fix...so def well worth the investment with the added piece of mind you can just crack on and get the lights in where you need to without the risk of a fire later on.

Screwfix links dont work but i just had a look and if you just search fire hoods you will get a few options up buddy.

The units are already fire rated. Did look into those thermal hoods you can buy but needed one you could install from below. Tenmat made one that would have been ideal, it could be folded and fitted through cut-out with a metal clip that secured it to cut-out ... but they said they are not popular in this country and no distributor had them in UK ... it was a 3 week wait that I couldn't afford.

Funnily enough, was thinking of wrapping some of that heat reflecting material that can be used behind radiators around some of the nearby parts ... but what is making the job even more of a pain is the downlights need 65mm cut-outs ... I have to work from below ... and can't even get my hands through the damn holes!

 

[Rockingit]

I have to work from below ... and can't even get my hands through the damn holes!

Damn those child slavery laws!

 

[zippy]

Damn those child slavery laws!

LOL ... cunning plan to employ missus as labourer for the day!

 

[DaveyD]

Child bride? Chilling

 

[wade88]

How about just spraying some fire rated expanding foam through the gaps? Will hold everything nicely in place and thermally protect the other bits, only problem would be rectifying any problems in the future....hacking through cubic feet of foam could be a pain

 

[telectrix]

My sister has a flat roof above her kitchen, she said her lights suddenly flash and then blow an MCB. When I looked I found old type down lighters (no fire protection). The GU10 50W halogen bulbs had melted the supply cables, dead short line to earth.I had a look at LED down lighters today, they sure are bright and no way as hot.I'm deciding on the best thing to do, buying a complete unit is expensive but you can get dimmable bulbs at half decent prices but I'm not sure which is the best brand.

try this site. iv'e used them. 3watt LEDs at £8 + VAT.Importer and wholesaler of the latest LED lighting products

 

[mogga]

hALER DO A DIMMABLE EVOLVELED depends where you get them prices vary around £40 a fitting + govs cut as for wades suggestion of foam heat disipation would be NIL as Iv said before FIRE RATED doesnt mean FIRE PREVENTION or FIRE PROTECTION these fire rated fittings are designed to stop the spread of fire and still require area round them for heat disapation Id also argue against thinking that fitting CFL lamps will absolve you of any problems arising as we have all seen 100w lamps fittted in 60w rated batten holders and knowin the light output of CFLs I wouldnt trust mrJones not to go stick in gu10s when the mrs says the lights are dim can you get brighter ones?