Discuss Kitchen installer expanding. in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:   American Electrical Advice Forum

Reaction score
5
Hi guys, chances are I might get flamed for this but what the hell.... :p

I currently run a kitchen design and installation business and the electrical side is problematic for us, we subcontract so depend on various people across our area however, at times this makes quoting for jobs difficult, erodes our profit and puts the quality of our service in the hands of others so the obvious solution us to bring it in house.

Weve spoken to training providers and have identified the C&G 4141-01 / 2393 / 2392-10 / 2382 as a potential option.

The problem arises with part P certification, namely getting the work signed off until we have enough of a portfolio to join a registered body as this line if work wouldnt be our daily bread a butter.

So, my question is, how realistic is third party or building control sign off in this situation and how does it work?

Obviously I've asked a few of the bodies for more info but have yet to get replies so thought I might get an outline here.

Apologies in advance if this is a much covered topic but really would appreciate some help and advice.
 
Hi guys, chances are I might get flamed for this but what the hell.... :p

I currently run a kitchen design and installation business and the electrical side is problematic for us, we subcontract so depend on various people across our area however, at times this makes quoting for jobs difficult, erodes our profit and puts the quality of our service in the hands of others so the obvious solution us to bring it in house.

Weve spoken to training providers and have identified the C&G 4141-01 / 2393 / 2392-10 / 2382 as a potential option.

The problem arises with part P certification, namely getting the work signed off until we have enough of a portfolio to join a registered body as this line if work wouldnt be our daily bread a butter.

So, my question is, how realistic is third party or building control sign off in this situation and how does it work?

Obviously I've asked a few of the bodies for more info but have yet to get replies so thought I might get an outline here.

Apologies in advance if this is a much covered topic but really would appreciate some help and advice.
Hire a qualified electrician get to know them and use the same company for your upgrades
 
As I said mate, we subcontract a few already but service quite a large area so using the same contractor isn't realistic nor is employing someone full time.

Financially and from a logistic point of view it would make a lot more sence to up skill in house as we would be creating multi skilled employees rather than employing someone just for electrical work.

Were certainly not doing 52 weeks of electrical work, that's for sure.

Not a slight at anyone on this forum but as we need quick and reliable response and have found this to be sporadic at best when subcontracting and also we find variations in the way people work causes integration problems so it absolutely makes sence to have a multi skilled employee on our books.
 
Third party sign off may be difficult as niceic don’t do third party.
I believe only napit registered do this.

Building control sign off will charge you in excess of £250. And probably contract a napit sparky to do this anyway. Different building control areas different prices and procedures.

It may be financially viable to train someone up in house, but to do it will take 3 or 4 years at least. Unless you are thinking of going the short course route, which is not a good idea.

The short course route will not give you the quals or experience to become registered with an approved scheme.

Every registration body expects a minimum qualification and at least 2 years on tools experience. These are the minimum requirements.
 
If you're expanding then it would be better to get an electrician on the books.

You will more than likely be carrying out notifiable works at some point and this would be easier and cheaper to do when part of a self certification scheme with a scheme provider such as the NICEIC/NAPIT/STROMA etc.

It's easier to train an electrician to do other works than the other way round. Kitchen fitters who do electrics tend to be the worst for cutting corners and leaving poor/dangerous installations.
 
Definitely food for thought guys however were not expanding per say, more looking at ways to be more efficient and offer a more rounded service. I'd love to be in a place where I could afford more staff but from a cost to benefit perspective were probably not there yet.

The point about cutting corners probably says more about some 'kitchen fitters' than the trade generally, some kitchen fitters cant fit a worktop for example, that's just not how we work. Quality first.

One thing that has sparked my interest about the short courses not offering the correct qualifications, the training providers we have spoken to are saying the complete opposite, the line they are giving us is, employee will be qualified to C&G level and all the would need would be building control or third party sign off following works.

There seems to be a disparity between the previous comments and what the training providers are saying and I'm wondering what I'm missing?

Thanks for the input guys.
 
Don’t speak to the course providers they have no power to say they are able to register you or not. All they want is your money and will tell you anything to get you on the course. They won’t lie, but they won’t disclose everything.

You can trip them up if you know the right questions to ask.


Speak to napit/ elects a/ niceic. They are the ones who will say yes or no to registration not the course providers.
 
Last edited:
Definitely food for thought guys however were not expanding per say, more looking at ways to be more efficient and offer a more rounded service. I'd love to be in a place where I could afford more staff but from a cost to benefit perspective were probably not there yet.

The point about cutting corners probably says more about some 'kitchen fitters' than the trade generally, some kitchen fitters cant fit a worktop for example, that's just not how we work. Quality first.

One thing that has sparked my interest about the short courses not offering the correct qualifications, the training providers we have spoken to are saying the complete opposite, the line they are giving us is, employee will be qualified to C&G level and all the would need would be building control or third party sign off following works.

There seems to be a disparity between the previous comments and what the training providers are saying and I'm wondering what I'm missing?

Thanks for the input guys.
Anyone can get electrical work signed off via building control or third party scheme. They are just trying to sell their courses but ultimately you'll be paying hundreds per job to get it signed off as someone said above.
 
I took the short course route. I'm not on a part p scheme yet (I use a 3rd party guy), but most of the other guys from the course are, NICEIC being the most popular as there's no minimum experience required. Stroma want 2 years, as do Napit I believe. So you can get registered via the short course route.
 
I took the short course route. I'm not on a part p scheme yet (I use a 3rd party guy), but most of the other guys from the course are, NICEIC being the most popular as there's no minimum experience required. Stroma want 2 years, as do Napit I believe. So you can get registered via the short course route.
Which short course was that?

Was it the domestic installer and 18th edition courses?

How many day at college was it?

Genuinely curious not having a go.
 
I was in the same boat as you @thebartman, I run a building firm and was getting fed up with space is wanting the earth and letting me down and rather ironically the short course sparks not having a clue, so I took some time out and Laboured for a spark myself for approximately 18 months I then went on the 6 week course and have never looked back.
Please don’t listen to the course providers they will teach you to pass an exam but in the real world experience is king and you’ll sink quickly, if you are looking to put your name to a certificate I’d make sure you know what you are talking about should the worst happen, I’m not saying don’t do it, many have and have succeeded in the domestic area, but it is so much more than just doing the course and thinking you will be ok
 
Third party sign off may be difficult as niceic don’t do third party.
I believe only napit registered do this.

Building control sign off will charge you in excess of £250. And probably contract a napit sparky to do this anyway. Different building control areas different prices and procedures.

It may be financially viable to train someone up in house, but to do it will take 3 or 4 years at least. Unless you are thinking of going the short course route, which is not a good idea.

The short course route will not give you the quals or experience to become registered with an approved scheme.

Every registration body expects a minimum qualification and at least 2 years on tools experience. These are the minimum requirements.
I have to disagree there, the OPs situation is exaclty what the short corses were supposed to be for and will offer all the qualifications required.

It is the pratical skills that will be lacking.

As far as work portfolio goes most CP schemes will require a substantial piece of work to assess including at least one new circuit along with documentary evidence of insurances, policies and procedures as well as thr requisite regulatory documentation and calibrated test equipment.

In brief, if you have someone who has the aptitude and willingness to take this on then the short courses should fulfill your needs. You may need your candidate to shadow an experienced spark for a while.
 
Definitely food for thought guys however were not expanding per say, more looking at ways to be more efficient and offer a more rounded service. I'd love to be in a place where I could afford more staff but from a cost to benefit perspective were probably not there yet.

The point about cutting corners probably says more about some 'kitchen fitters' than the trade generally, some kitchen fitters cant fit a worktop for example, that's just not how we work. Quality first.

One thing that has sparked my interest about the short courses not offering the correct qualifications, the training providers we have spoken to are saying the complete opposite, the line they are giving us is, employee will be qualified to C&G level and all the would need would be building control or third party sign off following works.

There seems to be a disparity between the previous comments and what the training providers are saying and I'm wondering what I'm missing?

Thanks for the input guys.
It would appear they are not including initial verification course, which is available.


Firstbon to show up on google, not necessarily a recommendation
 
You will still need 2 years experience to register so you can sign off your own work.

Yes the short course will give you enough training to be able to test a circuit and issue minor works certificate that doesn’t need signing off, but not the practical experience you will need to complete the job. You won’t be able to sign off notifyable works.
 
Where did that 2 years come from, I set up with NIC the day after my short course finished, no mention of 2 years.

More recently with NAPIT again no mention of two years.

Both allowed for signing off notifyable work.

Again, this is exactly what the short courses are for, or so i was led to believe.
 
Where did that 2 years come from, I set up with NIC the day after my short course finished, no mention of 2 years.

More recently with NAPIT again no mention of two years.

Both allowed for signing off notifyable work.

Again, this is exactly what the short courses are for, or so i was led to believe.
Stroma before napit, specified 2 years experience
 
Where did that 2 years come from, I set up with NIC the day after my short course finished, no mention of 2 years.

More recently with NAPIT again no mention of two years.

Both allowed for signing off notifyable work.

Again, this is exactly what the short courses are for, or so i was led to believe.
The 2 years is in the nic literature . I’ll try and dig it out.
I’m surprised you where registered without practical experience in the trade.
 

Reply to Kitchen installer expanding. in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Electrical Forum

Welcome to the Electrical Forum at ElectriciansForums.net. The friendliest electrical forum online. General electrical questions and answers can be found in the electrical forum.
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock