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I have spoken to three companies today in my region (East Anglia) about trying to get a labourers/ mates job to gain some site experience. I explained my situation (hopefully going to college in sept 3 days a week) and

Two of the companies were very kind and told me they would contact me if something came up. The director of the third company has told me that he does not take on labourers without their 17th.

is it possible to obtain my 17th without any site experience? a college near me runs the 17th (2383) in the evenings.

do you think it will make me more employable as a labourer with the eventual goal of enrolling at college to do my nvq l2 and l3?

what advice could you give me to find some relevant site work?

cheers for the help

Sam
 
I know of a lot of sparks without the 17th edition and to expect a labourer to have obtained this is taking the pi@@, at the least, they should class you as with the 17th edition, is a senior adult trainee IMO, there are no such things in this game as "electricians mates" that was the 1950-60 my friend. Anyone can sit the 17th edition C&G exam you do not have to be an electrician to take the open book multiple choice.
 
Yes you can do the 17th without having any previous electrical qualifications.
 
Labours with the 17th o.0 was he winding you up ???

Labours are used for one thing labour in no world would they need to know 17th ed

Seems a wind up tbh do you college and keep looking for jobs
 
I've always been under the impression labourers are for un-skilled work ie pulling cables and the like, so I think you should name and shame the third company for telling you that garbage
 
i have had a few electricians mates jobs and i have not got 17th edition qualification, you should not need the 17th edition if you are just laboring for the company as laboring is classed as unskilled work, so just luck some where else for a job he is asking for too much
 
Laborers should only need cscs site inoperative card.

Mate needs the above and 17th min. Maybe Level 2.

Improver should have (imho) the above + level 3, (maybe AM2 OR NVQ3).

Electrician should have the above plus 2391 (aka 2394, 2395), AM2 OR NVQ3 and a reasonable amount of time on the tools to use these quals.



Obtaining a job these days are hard because all of the employers and agencies are asking for more quals from people to whittle out the chaff and get a better workforce in these difficult times. They are wanting more for their money basically.

To the OP, get your 17th and more doors will open for you, that is just how the real world works I'm afraid. Its not that hard to pass imho, invest into your future and put your wallet and mind at work to gain you work. After that get all the other tickets you need to make an income.
 
yeah no problems getting 17th edition without experience.
you can go on a 3 day course they mostly tell you how and where to look in the green book. you can also go exam only after some time with green book.
 
What is this a new grade a "mate" "Mate needs the above and 17th min. Maybe Level 2" Who has come up with this, do you mean un-skilled operatives ?

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post 8
 
You can do exam only, you can buy books that give you hints on how best to pass. You can do an on line study course and 'attend a local centre' for the exam (try finding one)! The on line option is about £50 less than a three day college course where you have a trainer and other students to bounce off. IMHO I would take the plunge and do the course at a local centre; there's loads of them about!!! I agree if this is your preferred career choice then you may as well do it; it will stand you in good stead! Good luck!!!
 
What is this a new grade a "mate" "Mate needs the above and 17th min. Maybe Level 2" Who has come up with this, do you mean un-skilled operatives ?

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post 8

Post 8 was me, I came up with a minimum requirement for what I believe should be for a mate. CSCS to get on site then a minimum of the 17th ed to prove that the mate has passed an exam showing that he/she can find an answer to a problem in a regs book if/when they come across a problem that they dont know from the top of their head.

eg, mate is sent to do a task but knows his/her instructions are against the regs. He/she will know this from their education or by looking it up and showing the Q/S from a book. We all make mistakes including supervisors and designers. (trust me, I'm having a bit of a battle with a designer atm about this).

My post number 8 is my own opinions on what I believe a structured ratting should be in the real world and not from a JIB grading system. A mate should know basic isolation, cable colours/sizes/types/routes/containment/location/grouping/installation and protection. If they dont they should know where to find the information for the safety of others.
 
Post 8 was me, I came up with a minimum requirement for what I believe should be for a mate. CSCS to get on site then a minimum of the 17th ed to prove that the mate has passed an exam showing that he/she can find an answer to a problem in a regs book if/when they come across a problem that they dont know from the top of their head.

eg, mate is sent to do a task but knows his/her instructions are against the regs. He/she will know this from their education or by looking it up and showing the Q/S from a book. We all make mistakes including supervisors and designers. (trust me, I'm having a bit of a battle with a designer atm about this).

My post number 8 is my own opinions on what I believe a structured ratting should be in the real world and not from a JIB grading system. A mate should know basic isolation, cable colours/sizes/types/routes/containment/location/grouping/installation and protection. If they dont they should know where to find the information for the safety of others.

I agree. A 'mate' is more than a 'labourer'; A labourer doesn't need to know the slump figure for the concrete; just where to barrow it too. A 'mate' needs to know a lot more 'cos our stuff kills.
 
Labours with the 17th o.0 was he winding you up ???

Labours are used for one thing labour in no world would they need to know 17th ed

Seems a wind up tbh do you college and keep looking for jobs

If you think that's bad, a lot of companies (I.e about 35-40% of recruitment Agencies, very soon to be more once they all join the bandwagon) want ALL Electricians mates/labourers to have the 17th Edition, the 2377 PAT, the 3 day First Aid, Abrasive Wheels, PASMA, IPAF, Asbestos and an Enhanced Disclosure, as well as their own tools, PPE and Vehicle....

For Pipefitters/ventilation fitters mates they want the IPAF, PASMA, Abrasive wheels, 3 day First Aid,Asbestos, Manual Handling and many are asking for the Telehandler Forklift Licence and/or Banksman signaler /loader......the foreign workers mostly all have it and it's good for shifting heavy sections of pipes about.....not to mention own PPE, Tools and Vehicle....


A lot of these guys don't earn enough to keep their own vehicle on the road, and the Agencies claim the £50 (last time I checked) a head for PPE which they never buy for/give to the labourers/mates (or come to think of it anybody else) they just tell you to get your own then keep the money.....


The tickets cost ££ ££

I mean, for a mate/labourer getting paid in buttons to be asked/told to get:

17th Edition : £450.00
IPAF: £240.00
PASMA: £240.00
3 day first Aid: £600.00
Abrasive Wheels and Disks: £150.00
Asbestos Ticket:tearsofjoy:75.00
Manual Handling: £170.00 (online multi choice is £35.00 but not accepted by most)
Telehandler Forklift :upwards of £700.00

just to get onto site......then they are only valid for 2 or 3 years, need to "refresh" at 2/3 the cost of doing the whole thing again......and if they do an "update" and jig it about a little bit, then a whole new upgrade to a different certificate name/number at full price....

These guys are getting stung......the Recruitment Agencies can charge out at a higher rate per hour as they are meant to pay sparks and mates more who have certain tickets, but they don't tell you that and just bank/pocket the difference for themselves....

I was told that if a worker has a First Aid certificate, supposedly it is the law that they get paid a slightly higher rate (£1.50 or £2.00, and that was about 3 years ago when it was mentioned to me) this, I was told, was to compensate for the responsibility of being a First Aider on site and to go towards the costs incurred by the worker(s) for keeping up to date with First Aid training.....

If you are a first Aider, ask if you are going to be getting paid a better rate....


I was working beside a spark a few years ago who was in from a different Agency, he was there as he was a designated First Aider on site, and the gaffer pulled him into the office when I was in there and sent him to his car for his first aid certificates, which he scanned for the site records.....the lad told me that he only got the job as he had a first aid ticket, I asked if he was getting paid for it and he had negotiated an extra £2 an hour on top of what the others were getting as he said he would wrap it otherwise.....the Agency were charging him out at £5 an hour extra on top....was a good guy to work with.....after 3 weeks on site he got the old P45-Pumped as a manager moved from another site to the portacabin office who had a first aid certificate and they said he was too expensive to keep, this caused a falling out with the Agency (one of three Agencies supplying workers) resulting in another 6 people( 3 sparks, 3 pipefitters) getting laid off, apparently to do with inability to jump ship/change Agencies due to "finders fee"



So, if you have a First Aid certificate and a Green Sticker on your hardhat,make sure you get extra money, because the agency have put you on the invoice as a first aid operative and are taking money for that...
 
Reading between the lines mate i reckon the geezer will pay you as a labourer and try and get you do sparks work.He is probably hoping you will pick up a bit of electrical knowldege on the course.So he will be paying you £8 an hour and charging £40 an hour for you
 
Laborers should only need cscs site inoperative card.

Mate needs the above and 17th min. Maybe Level 2.

Improver should have (imho) the above + level 3, (maybe AM2 OR NVQ3).

Electrician should have the above plus 2391 (aka 2394, 2395), AM2 OR NVQ3 and a reasonable amount of time on the tools to use these quals.



Obtaining a job these days are hard because all of the employers and agencies are asking for more quals from people to whittle out the chaff and get a better workforce in these difficult times. They are wanting more for their money basically.

To the OP, get your 17th and more doors will open for you, that is just how the real world works I'm afraid. Itsnot that hard to pass imho, invest into your future and put your wallet and mind at work to gain you work. After that get all the other tickets you need to make an income.



Are you going to pay the £450.00 for him to do the 17th edition then? it's very easy to pass as long as you've got the money in the Bank just like all of the other tickets, so you might be able to easily do it, but if you're currently skint then you're Knackered aren't you???


sorry bud, no tickets no job.........

no job, no savings........no savings no money......no money, no courses/tickets........no tickets no job sorry....That's how it is in the real world.....

what about the young sparks and the labourers and trades mates trying to get tickets and with maybe a wife and kids, a car to keep running, living miles from Colleges out in the sticks? they would have to go to a College maybe for a number of days, possibly spread out over weeks and months just to get tickets/training.....then go back at night for exams on different dates spread out....that's Digs to pay for as well, food, petrol or Bus/Train tickets...


A lot of sparks just starting out or labourers trying to gain tickets/certificates only have dust in their wallet......we need to lay off of them it's bad enough for them these days without people saying....


"I have money I do tickets, you should have the tickets too, otherwise you're useless" or similar things...
 
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You can do exam only, you can buy books that give you hints on how best to pass. You can do an on line study course and 'attend a local centre' for the exam (try finding one)! The on line option is about £50 less than a three day college course where you have a trainer and other students to bounce off. IMHO I would take the plunge and do the course at a local centre; there's loads of them about!!! I agree if this is your preferred career choice then you may as well do it; it will stand you in good stead! Good luck!!!

pretty much impossible, from what I seen speaking to a few different college lecturers and office staff over the last few years, very very few of them will let anybody just do an exam only for ANY subject at all.....the reasons given are A) their reputation if too many people don't pass first time round and B) the certificate issuers such as City n Guilds don't like it at all and strongly discourage the Colleges from allowing it...
 
I have spoken to three companies today in my region (East Anglia) about trying to get a labourers/ mates job to gain some site experience. I explained my situation (hopefully going to college in sept 3 days a week) and

Two of the companies were very kind and told me they would contact me if something came up. The director of the third company has told me that he does not take on labourers without their 17th.

is it possible to obtain my 17th without any site experience? a college near me runs the 17th (2383) in the evenings.

do you think it will make me more employable as a labourer with the eventual goal of enrolling at college to do my nvq l2 and l3?

what advice could you give me to find some relevant site work?

cheers for the help

Sam

did you find out about getting your ILA (Individual Learning Account) ? that can take £200 off the cost of the 17th Edition.. look on google...
 
I seen a job advertised online for an "SJIB Approved sparks mate" earlier......Agency stated "if not a graded carded Approved SJIB Electricians mate"....need not apply....


is there now an "approved" grade for an Electricians mate/labourer?.......first I heard of it....
 
i went for a interview today with a agency for a sparks mate job and when i got there they asked me if i had any quals i told them i had my peo lv2 elec engineering and c & g 2330 level 2 and that i was in my second year at college on the new 2357 course and then he said i needed the 17th edition qual, asbestos awerness ticket and confined spaces ticket which i havnt got so i did not get the job but they wanted all this andwas only paying £6.19 hr i think this i really bad
 

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