Lack of RCD protection on Sockets a C2?

[sl1210]

I received a EICR from a customer from an NICEIC member who had deemed the installation unsatisfactory due to there being no rcd protection to sockets and the heaters (C2). So I am going to change the consumer unit as that is what she wants done.

Now I personally would class that as a C3 if there was supplementary bonding.

Surely half the houses would fail in London due to lack of rcd protection?

 

[alanl]

Could any of the socket outlets be used to feed outdoor appliances?
If so, then it will be a C2.

 

[sl1210]

I havent been to the job, but I wouldn't of thought so. Anyway he gave economy 7 heaters on the second consumer unit a c2 too.

 

[Badged01]

As 'Alan' states should only be a C2 if there is a possibility of feeding outdoor equipment. For most houses this would be correct unless its a London flat above ground level where my view would be C3!

 

[Flanders]

Yes sockets that could be used to supply portable equipment outside C2, all other sockets C3 and only a C3 for heater if cables are buried in wall otherwise no code. But changing the consumer unit for dual RCD will correct all the above

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Suggest a good read of the regs in order. The regs are not RETROSPECTIVE, earlier editions of the regs WERE NOT DANGEROUS, so if an installation is to an earlier edition of the regs, and it has no defects IT IS STILL SAFE. You can recommend an installation to upgraded to current standards. No RCD's IS NOT DANGEROUS, it is RECOMMENDED to have them but not compulsory. C3 IMPROVEMENT RECOMMENDED, NOT C2 it is not dangerous.

Cheers...........Howard

 

[Flanders]

I've always been guided by NICIEC that any socket than can be used outdoors is A C2 if no RCD fitted . But do agree with Howard that you are testing to the regs when the installation was installed, I personally started on the first Red 16th addition where RCDs for sockets liable to be used outside have to be RCD protected, I don't have a 15th addition book but I'm guessing RCDS did not feature in it

 

[Badged01]

Suggest a good read of the regs in order. The regs are not RETROSPECTIVE, earlier editions of the regs WERE NOT DANGEROUS, so if an installation is to an earlier edition of the regs, and it has no defects IT IS STILL SAFE. You can recommend an installation to upgraded to current standards. No RCD's IS NOT DANGEROUS, it is RECOMMENDED to have them but not compulsory. C3 IMPROVEMENT RECOMMENDED, NOT C2 it is not dangerous.

Cheers...........Howard

Having a field day on RCDs today! Another interesting point around interpretation of regs and guidance from 'governing' bodies.

Regs 411.3.3 (only quoting because i was told this pulls the chicks!) states RCD required for sockets likely to provide outside equipment. Obviously no mention of what code it is in the regs.

Electrical Safety Council publication on codes recommends code C2 for sockets providing outside equipment without RCD which most domestic premises will fall foul of.

I know its all recommendations but if the proverbial sh*t hits the fan and one hasnt followed the recommendation of the ESC in giving a C2 where does that leave you?

Discussions please ........

 

[thekingiam]

agree if before 16 th eddition, and most properties are then c3 or nothing recomend updating but not an issue.
how many times have i been told by customer that they have been told they need a rcd usualy by a plumber or british gas.
i could make a fortune if i didn't tell them the truth.

 

[Badged01]

I know its late on a Saturday night but thats the dichotomy I have. When completing an EICR you have to do it against the current regulations and not what was the regulations were at the time -- be it safe then or otherwise.

Being very general, domestic properties fall foul of having sockets that are liable to provide outside power and in-line with recommendations from the ESC you have to call it a C2 which records the EICR as "Unsatisfactory".

If you dont follow the ESC recommendations then what arguement do you need to present that you know better than the electrical lord & masters? I wouldnt want to be trying to prove that in a court of law but would be interested in knowing otherwise. Hence the discussion bit ........

 

[bugsy]

you apply the regs relevent to the installation thats being tested if it's 16th you test to 16th

 

[alanl]

I would refer you to page 80 of GN3:
"3.12 - ...inspection should be carried out against the current edition of BS7671"

I'm surprised that anyone does not know that.

 

[Guest55]

you apply the regs relevent to the installation thats being tested if it's 16th you test to 16th

er , no.
in fact double no.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

I'll triple no that for you

 

[shanky887614]

Time out. All that is required by regs is simply. Is it safe for continude service acording to regs circuit designed to.

Otherwise every single building over 3 years might need updating because of the amendment

 

[Des 56]

An eicr is carried out to ascertain if the installation is safe for continued use

It is tested as per the current regulations,any non conformities are then coded

If it was installed to an earlier edition,the non conformity, taking in mind what was current at that time,has to be considered and the coding decided with the install date in mind

 

[SirKit Breaker]

The opinions of the NICEIC or any of the other organisation are irrelevant. The only thing that counts is what the IET say, they write the regs that we have to work to. End of. Simple really, and if you read the opening page or 3 within the regs, it clearly states the requirements, and considerations for work done to an earlier version.

 

[telectrix]

basically. is it safe for continued use? if yes, then it can't be a fail..... does it comply with 17th ed. regs. if not, then a code 3 would be applicable if you thought it required improvement.

 

[markc123]

Slight hangover here, but, if im reading this thread correctly............wtf.

Every house according to this thread in the whole of the UK would fail because you can plug anything in through the kitchen window....

Only if the socket is physically outside and there is no RCD protection should it warrant a C2 IMO.

 

[Spoon]

All the sockets in my house can potentially be used for equipment outside.... I have a long extension lead...