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paul2110

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Hi all

have one very simple question but try as i can i cant find the answer on the web

in a landlords safety report if a dimmer switch turns on the lights but doesnt actually dim the lights should this be classed as c2

My elderly father has a small property he rents out and it does have a few minor issues which he will get done but i feel the local chap is trying to make extra money out of him , by frightening him
 
Thank you so much Brian

can i be cheeky and ask a couple of other questions now as you have confirmed my concerens that this local chap is trying to make money out of an elderly gentleman

he also wants to change the kitchen downlights as he has classed them as c2 for not being fire rated but and i may well be wrong
but if the property is old and the lights have been in for many years is this a legal requirement as well ? as i found something online that seems to say its not

he also seems to think that having no RCD on a lighting circuit is c2 as well from what i have found online this is only in newer properties if the work was carried out years ago it was legal then

has my father just been unlucky or is he being potentially ripped off by this guy

i really appreciate you time thank you
 
sorry to be a pain all

but

The more an more i read this report the more concerned i am that i will need to have a chat with this electrician
i maybe wrong but I'm guessing that you need specific equipment to carry out tests required to complete this report and on the last page it states
TEST INSTRUMENT enter serial number of each used I'm guessing that all these boxes shouldn't have been marked as N/A

Has my Father unfortunately parted with money for worthless report
 
kitchen downlights is no code unless there's signs of heat damage ( usually with halogens) or sloppy wiring with the basic insulation exposed ot things like earth wires cut off or otherwise non-compliant. fire rating would only want a code if the flooer above was occupied by a different inhabitant ( e.g. a sepatrate flat.). looks like the guy who did the reportis is fishing for unnecessary remedials.
 
kitchen downlights is no code unless there's signs of heat damage ( usually with halogens) or sloppy wiring with the basic insulation exposed ot things like earth wires cut off or otherwise non-compliant. fire rating would only want a code if the flooer above was occupied by a different inhabitant ( e.g. a sepatrate flat.). looks like the guy who did the reportis is fishing for unnecessary remedials.
Thank you so much for your time this is exactly what i am worried about might have to have a little chat with him trying to rip off my father
 
essex spark. maybe his fake tan is due for maintenance,vhis manicure and hair dyeing are overdue, and his mistress wants a new pair of shoes.
 
In general, with a few notable exceptions, things that were installed to the regulations that were current at the time of their installation, but now fall foul of the current ones are classified as C3, not C2, and this applies to the lack of RCD protection on a lighting circuit, although I would draw attention to that C3, and strongly recommend that RCD protection should be added to all circuits in a domestic property.
Could you post up clear pics. of the report on here, so that we can give a more informed opinion. Be sure to redact any identifying information of both the 'electrician' and the address of the property.
 
sorry to be a pain all

but

The more an more i read this report the more concerned i am that i will need to have a chat with this electrician
i maybe wrong but I'm guessing that you need specific equipment to carry out tests required to complete this report and on the last page it states
TEST INSTRUMENT enter serial number of each used I'm guessing that all these boxes shouldn't have been marked as N/A

Has my Father unfortunately parted with money for worthless report
There are a lot of people who are competent testers but don't know how to fill in a form, sadly, so simple errors on a form aren't always a sign of incompetence....Never a good look on a professional document though.

However, in this case - if there is an entry for multi-functional tester, then the others do not need to be entered as the one tester covers all the tests - so N/A might be correct.

There is also unfortunately some variation in guidance out there - though the Government has finally made it clear that they consider the Best Practice Guide as the standard to start with.

The final result is still left largely to the inspector as a professional judgement though, which is unfortunate sometimes when myths or golden rules crop up that are based more on personal viewpoint than genuine safety concerns...

The downlights fire rating is another one that crops up often. The fire rating of downlights is more to do with maintaining the level of fire rating of the medium they are installed into (usually a plasterboard ceiling). If that ceiling is fire rated, then the lights must also be to maintain the rating.

Ceilings in domestic houses do not need to be fire rated just because there is a bedroom above. They may be in flats, if the ceiling is being used as the fire barrier (which it often isn't when there is concrete construction, etc).

Edit: Just to add that garages with rooms above do I think do require fire rated downlights, but that's because fire rated plasterboard is also required in those cases...

Electrical Safety First do recommend the use of fire rated downlights in ceilings, but that is different from them being a C2 level on an EICR.

Old style halogen downlights do get very hot, so there are certainly some benefits to upgrading to LED ones - sometimes that just means changing lamps, but if putting new ones in Fire rated ones do make some sense generally - but that's not the same as something being potentially dangerous that must be fixed within 28 days.

If you can remove the identifying information and post the report, you will get some advice on whether it is just an inspector being cautious, incorrectly filled, or just fishing for work...
 
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In general, with a few notable exceptions, things that were installed to the regulations that were current at the time of their installation, but now fall foul of the current ones are classified as C3, not C2, and this applies to the lack of RCD protection on a lighting circuit, although I would draw attention to that C3, and strongly recommend that RCD protection should be added to all circuits in a domestic property.
Could you post up clear pics. of the report on here, so that we can give a more informed opinion. Be sure to redact any identifying information of both the 'electrician' and the address of the property.
Dear Brain sorry for the delay i will print out report and delete as required then scan it back in i really do appreciate your offer of helping
 
Sadly some sparks use a book called codebreakers which is very harsh on installations for reasons that are somewhat subjective. The book is produced by NAPIT as a guide to coding. Some sparks take it as the de facto item when coding. They really need to reference Guidance Note 3 and BS7671 to justify the codes they issue. Having said that ESPRS which applies to Landlords, does state that the installation must be to the 18th Edition regs so you could reasonably argue that C2 is correct for RCD missing on lights. Personally I think ESPRS is a bit shoddy and poorly thought out. As well it does go against the Best Practice Guide No. 4 at Electricalsafety.org. I agree that a dimmer not working is definitely not codable, unless there was some damage and that is why the dimmer is not working.
 
But C3 for missing RCD on a lighting circuit is to the 18th. The section on testing says (gross simplification) C2 if not to regs at the time of installation, but C3 if to regs at the time of installation, but not to regs now.
 
Yes true but as I was pointing out the wording in ESPRS requires installations to meet 18th edition which does require RCD for lighting and sockets quite clearly. Bit of a problem I think in the wording of it. What's your take?
 
Hi all

have one very simple question but try as i can i cant find the answer on the web

in a landlords safety report if a dimmer switch turns on the lights but doesnt actually dim the lights should this be classed as c2

My elderly father has a small property he rents out and it does have a few minor issues which he will get done but i feel the local chap is trying to make extra money out of him , by frightening him
I done one today, had same issue, I put c3 for dimmer issue. Bit harsh a c2 in my opinion. No rcd on lighting i would c2.
 
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