led gu10s in shop

[whats an rb4]

been out of sparking for a while hence the question , we are opening a shop and have some fittings but no lamps yet! so questions are , can these led lamps be wired in series loop in and out on ceiling tiles ,and do i need a resistor somewhere what are pros and cons 230 vs 12 cost wise , ease of installation a priority, was going for cool white in shop area and warm white in tearoom , as you can probably tell i need a push the right direction , any thoughts or ideas for making the job easy bearing in mind i have to pay the elecricity bill aswell would be greatly appreciated

 

[Strima]

Can be wired as a normal lighting circuit. I would go for the 230v as there's less to go wrong i.e. no transformers to blow. You may get the lamps glowing dimly when the circuit is not energised due to induced voltage from other circuits. Easy enough to sort, just stick a standard lamp in one of the holders or wire the lighting circuit on a DP switch.

 

[Richard Burns]

GU10 LEDs are a straight swap for halogens. you cannot wire them in series but you can wire them loop in loop out (parallel). 230V are easier to install than 12V because of fewer components, especially if you already have GU10 fittings. No resistors are required, unless you get flickering problems when off.
Do not buy very cheap LEDs from china as they will die. SMD LEDs will give a wide more diffuse light, standard LEDs are about equivalent to halogen (just). If you have fire rated fittings then the high power (9W, etc.) lamps may be too long for the fitting.

 

[whats an rb4]

thanks strima and richard , loop in it is so i assume given they only3-4w ish each we can have on all one circuit ? or are there special mcbs to down rate them?

 

[Richard Burns]

Should be OK all on one circuit, (depending on how many you are using!), just make sure someone does not change them back to halogens!

 

[whats an rb4]

that made no sense but am sure you know what i meant, must read before sendin , meant are there any lower rated mcbs and any ind norm /circuit thanks guys

 

[Darkwood]

Agree with above although low voltage used to have the edge due to lamp life been extended as they hand a ramping up and down of voltage that was less damaging to the filament but GU10 now all the way as they retrofit cfl, led etc and lamp life aint a drawback anymore.

 

[whats an rb4]

well would be prudent to keep separate areas kitchen/ toilets etc on own different circuit, but in the main room could be mabey 80 ish but at 4w each still not half a kw ,ideas , guidance ,

 

[Darkwood]

well would be prudent to keep separate areas kitchen/ toilets etc on own different circuit, but in the main room could be mabey 80 ish but at 4w each still not half a kw ,ideas , guidance ,

Be careful in your thinking, their is still a D.C. driver in the lamp and it has an associated inrush current, to be safe treat it like you would a standard 50w filament circuit for no' of lamps as the mcb brands haven't printed any guidance notes with no' of led lamps permitted to rated mcb, last thing you want is nuisance tripping as all the drivers spike the mcb together and you have to think backwards as well ... what if the customer fitted standard lamps after ...... always design for the highest rated lamp that can be fitted.

 

[Richard Burns]

80 down lights is a lot! would definitely want LED for that (but may not like the initial purchase cost).
As you say current is only about 2A so 6A MCB and 1mm cable (not in insulation) no problem. Just remember if someone does change lamps to halogen they may be surprised.
The MCB is protecting the cable so so long as the MCB (RCBO) is suitably rated for the cable and the total lamp load is less than the MCB you are fine. No particular special requirements, just wire as if standard incandescent, though you may find the is some loss in the circuitry for the LED lamp but not really worth worrying about.

 

[whats an rb4]

rich yes it is a lot ,darkwood we are the customer in this case and have to repair on vacation so should be fairly ok on that score ,how bigger surge! thought there would be more to it than that, be must be some middle ground somewhere dont we think, just a thought, would a type b breaker be more suitable perhaps for start surge , would be interesting to find out ,dunno was just trying to avoid multiple circuits thanks and any more thoughts guys

 

[Strima]

With that amount of lamps I would be tempted to contact the manufacturer and ask what expected in-rush current would be as they would have the calculations to hand and select the type from there. You never know you may even get a discount.

 

[whats an rb4]

wont get time tomo but think i may do that strima , seems overkill having eight circuit all going same way

 

[Darkwood]

rich yes it is a lot ,darkwood we are the customer in this case and have to repair on vacation so should be fairly ok on that score ,how bigger surge! thought there would be more to it than that, be must be some middle ground somewhere dont we think, just a thought, would a type b breaker be more suitable perhaps for start surge , would be interesting to find out ,dunno was just trying to avoid multiple circuits thanks and any more thoughts guys

You need to design it as though you were fitting 50w halogens this then would be ok if swapped for led's and inrush wont be a problem then as you wont have a large amount but, if you move on and the next owner fits 50w halogens instead then the circuit been designed for them, you cant use the 4w as a guide you have to use the max rated lamp that is possible to fit in the fitting, so afraid multiple circuits , the only way around this and get more lamps on per circuit is to fit all in one LED fittings that have built in fixed LED's but its gonner ramp the cost up, then converse with manufacturer as to a guide of how many on a standard 6 or 10amp mcb, designing lighting isn't always as simple as totting up the wattage.

 

[whats an rb4]

kinda knew that was the case but needed it comfirming by you guys as not familiar with them ,but alls good very straight forward ,just need to get my notches right when marking thanks for all your help guys, by the way do any of you guys use bid spotter , electrical wholesalers auctioned off today thats where i got fittings

 

[Darkwood]

Also just a query how big is this place 80 fittings sounds excessive, do remember 4w only gives equiv' to 35w halogen although the cool white can improve on that slightly, if you want to match a 50watt hal' output then 7w would be a minimum but id get sample lamps before bulk buying so you dont end up with the wrong rating. If its such a large area you might be best getting a lighting design drafted up, it may save a lot of fittings and may even direct you in other lighting schemes, some larger wholesalers will have a design team who will help you out (free if you use their products)

 

[whats an rb4]

yes i good point may get a wholsealer !! to hove a look would give me a good stareter for ten , the main room is 10mx12 and only 1 window and needs to be bright thanks for all your thoughts and advice on this matter