LED suggestions for a workshop

[Paul Breen 2021]

Good morning all, staying warm I hope

We are just moving into a new workshop and would like to change the current lighting to LED, currently there is sodium lights giving out an orange light which in not very eye friendly for our type of work so we are looking for advice or recommendations for replacing them.

The workshop is 16M x 12M and there is 6 of these lights at a height of 7M from the floor.

We would like to have a clean white light if possible with good brightness, we are machine builders and are going to be doing control panel assembly at this site.

Any pointers will be gratefully appreciated

 

[pc1966]

You can get 5 foot and 6 foot "non corrosive" baton style lights that are pretty much sealed so no issues with dust/damp/dead insects getting in. They come in single and double LED strip versions and you can also get them with emergency lighting built in, which is handy if you have a power cut and potentially dangerous stuff lying around or power tools like lathes, etc, running.

I would go as bright as you can, so double LED strip versions (around 60W+ each light) Maybe 3 normal and 3 with battery back-up?

Other option is LED flood lights, easily to 100W or more, but the glare from looking up at them might be a bit of an issue, and harder shadows.

 

[Paul Breen 2021]

You can get 5 foot and 6 foot "non corrosive" baton style lights that are pretty much sealed so no issues with dust/damp/dead insects getting in. They come in single and double LED strip versions and you can also get them with emergency lighting built in, which is handy if you have a power cut and potentially dangerous stuff lying around or power tools like lathes, etc, running.

I would go as bright as you can, so double LED strip versions (around 60W+ each light) Maybe 3 normal and 3 with battery back-up?

Other option is LED flood lights, easily to 100W or more, but the glare from looking up at them might be a bit of an issue, and harder shadows.

Thanks for the reply PC, hopefully everyone is looking down working, based on what you said I might stick a few more up to help with the shadows I have some 200W circular ones in our workshop in Germany and they are pretty good but the light has a smallish foot print from each one so we ended up putting more up to get rid of the shadows

 

[pc1966]

Thanks for the reply PC, hopefully everyone is looking down working, based on what you said I might stick a few more up to help with the shadows I have some 200W circular ones in our workshop in Germany and they are pretty good but the light has a smallish foot print from each one so we ended up putting more up to get rid of the shadows

It might be better overall to fit more lights covering the area for that reason. Also if one goes you don't loose too much until it is fixed/replaced!

You might have to check the max simultaneously switched limit for the MCB feeding it, but if they are already discharge lamps it is probably OK. Even with 12 * 60W LED lamps you are probably OK on a 10A MCB. Or it might have a couple of switches so areas are powered on in sequence, etc.

 

[Paul Breen 2021]

It might be better overall to fit more lights covering the area for that reason. Also if one goes you don't loose too much until it is fixed/replaced!

You might have to check the max simultaneously switched limit for the MCB feeding it, but if they are already discharge lamps it is probably OK. Even with 12 * 60W LED lamps you are probably OK on a 10A MCB. Or it might have a couple of switches so areas are powered on in sequence, etc.

I think we will be ok power wise, the current ones are spread by a 3phase breaker, 20A if I remember correctly

 

[petervirdee]

Really great suggestions , thanks for sharing your opinion here.

 

[bill01803]

If you are using rotating machinery you will need to use a flicker free light fitting to reduce the stroboscopic effect.

 

[Paul Breen 2021]

If you are using rotating machinery you will need to use a flicker free light fitting to reduce the stroboscopic effect.

Thanks Bill, never thought of that, we have a couple of CNC machines but once we setup and press start no one can access them because of the enclosures so I think we will be good

 

[pc1966]

The "old trick" for flicker free lighting was to have the banks of lights off each of the 3 phases so at any one time about 2 were on.

Some LED are low in flicker compared to fluorescents, but not all. Might be worth checking if single phase lights supply.

 

[pc1966]

I'm guessing the lights are sorted now?

 

[Paul Breen 2021]

The "old trick" for flicker free lighting was to have the banks of lights off each of the 3 phases so at any one time about 2 were on.

Some LED are low in flicker compared to fluorescents, but not all. Might be worth checking if single phase lights supply.

I'm bouncing back and forward to Germany so its slow progress at the minute, i think they are No 6 or 7 on the to do list, I didn't work out how the original ones are wired yet, they are using 3 phase as there is a label on the standard domestic double light switch, I find that a bit sketchy to be honest so I may go the route of re installing everything.
Its a good tip for spreading them across the phases, thanks pc1966

 

[pc1966]

I'm bouncing back and forward to Germany so its slow progress at the minute, i think they are No 6 or 7 on the to do list, I didn't work out how the original ones are wired yet, they are using 3 phase as there is a label on the standard domestic double light switch, I find that a bit sketchy to be honest so I may go the route of re installing everything.
Its a good tip for spreading them across the phases, thanks pc1966

Just noticed your earlier post about a 20A 3-phase MCB for the original discharge lamps. Possibly there is a contactor somewhere that actually switches the supplies to lights, and the light switch is simply operating its coil off one of the phases.

 

[Paul Breen 2021]

Just noticed your earlier post about a 20A 3-phase MCB for the original discharge lamps. Possibly there is a contactor somewhere that actually switches the supplies to lights, and the light switch is simply operating its coil off one of the phases.

I was thinking the same, I think they must have hidden it well if there is one lol, I dont hear a contactor when switching them on or off, the more I look into the wiring situation in the place the more it pushes us to rewire the whole place, there is no documentation or even labels on the distribution board and wire clipped all over the place that is just cut off with side cutters.

 

[pc1966]

I was thinking the same, I think they must have hidden it well if there is one lol, I dont hear a contactor when switching them on or off, the more I look into the wiring situation in the place the more it pushes us to rewire the whole place, there is no documentation or even labels on the distribution board and wire clipped all over the place that is just cut off with side cutters.

Options include that only one phase of the 3P breaker is actually in use, so it is a single-phase directly switched light system just as domestic arrangement, to it being hidden in the DB or somewhere bizarre.

In the long run you might be best to rewire it to your own requirements so you know it is right and have matching documentation!

 

[pc1966]

Depending on the make/age/condition of the DB you might not need to replace it, and if it is mostly conduit then pulling through new cable is a practical option without huge extra effort, etc.

 

[pc1966]

Or even solid-state contactor?

We went for a zero-crossing SSR for our floodlights (13 * 50W single phase) to keep inrush down, though ironically that is controlled by a mechanical toggling relay so we can use push switches in 3 locations and a web-relay for remote operations with only live & switch line needed (i.e. 4C+E cable can have the switched L&N for lights, along with permanent L for PIR lights and the switch line).

The mechanical relay replace an electronic one that proved to be troublesome in it tended to pick up its own lights being switched due to our long 4C+E run, as well as it would occasionally come on with the supply being restored which was not desirable,

This was the old-school replacement:

20.23.8.230.0000 | Finder DIN Rail Latching Power Relay, 230V ac Coil, 16A Switching Current, SP-NC, SP-NO | RS

uk.rs-online.com

Although it is a 16A resistive relay, it is only rated for 400W LED load, hence the zero-crossing SSR that is 800W LED rated.

 

[pc1966]

Just for completeness, here is the SSR we used:

77.01.8.230.8050 | Finder 77 Series Solid State Relay, 5 A Load, DIN Rail Mount, 265 V ac Load, 240 V ac Control | RS

uk.rs-online.com

It is not the cheapest choice, and thermal limit only 5A, but it fitted our DIN enclosure OK and is enough for our lamps.

However, it would probably be destroyed by a hard fault as the 6A B-curve MCB's I2t let-though is more than its fusing limit for fault currents above something like 300A. We could put in a 4A fuse or similar to protect it but that is not a likely fault mode so we can live with the risk. Safe from fire/shock though, which is what really matters.

 

[Paul Breen 2021]

Depending on the make/age/condition of the DB you might not need to replace it, and if it is mostly conduit then pulling through new cable is a practical option without huge extra effort, e

Just for completeness, here is the SSR we used:

77.01.8.230.8050 | Finder 77 Series Solid State Relay, 5 A Load, DIN Rail Mount, 265 V ac Load, 240 V ac Control | RS

uk.rs-online.com

It is not the cheapest choice, and thermal limit only 5A, but it fitted our DIN enclosure OK and is enough for our lamps.

However, it would probably be destroyed by a hard fault as the 6A B-curve MCB's I2t let-though is more than its fusing limit for fault currents above something like 300A. We could put in a 4A fuse or similar to protect it but that is not a likely fault mode so we can live with the risk. Safe from fire/shock though, which is what really matters.

I checked them out on RS from your link thanks, starting to formulate a plan for them now, I'm going to use the same lamps we used in our German workshop, they are a bit more pricey in the UK for some reason, probably Brexit related lol
Thanks for the advice once again