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Hi,

I'm new to the forum and I am currently working on a home cinema room. I intend to use Philips Hue for the room, with 8 adjustable downlights, 4 wall lights and 2 RGB LED strips up to 10m (max with Hue.

I have pulled the ceiling down, so there is access to all cables and I will run a pelmet around the room to hide all cables.

A couple of years ago, I had work down on other areas of my house and this room was effected, the electrician on the job (bought in by the builder) had to run cables in the room (see photograph).

I have removed this wiring now, so the switch has gone, all I have is the feed into the room, connected to the feed out of the room with level wagos.

My questions are as follows;

For the lighting, I was thinking I could add additional sockets to the ring from below in the pelmet (see chase and cables to one socket), then use 13amp plugs within these sockets to each set of lights - is this realistic? For the down lights, I'd fit each with a click flow connector.

Or I was thinking I could use FCU's with a 5amp fuse for each one, so one for down lights, one for wall lights and then an additional socket for the 2 x 10m led strips (these come with a plug). Could these FCU's just be spurred from the sockets or lighting circuit?

I know I could potentially just connect them all to the lighting circuit via wagos or a junction box, but now there is not switch, if the WI-FI goes down then I won't have a way to switch them off...

Thanks
 
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so what you are saying is that you have a lighting feed in and out of the room??
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
so what you are saying is that you have a lighting feed in and out of the room??
Originally in the room there was two drop lights in the centre and three wall lights, with a 3-gang switch on the wall (as shown). One switch for the drops, one for one wall light and the other for the other two wall lights on the other side of the room.

It doesn't show it in this photograph, but when the electricians did the work, they used lever wagos to rewire the 3-gang switch as it was moved when the doorway was changed. They also left a wire (see second picture above) outside of the safe zone going to a switch on the other side of the wall.

I removed all the wiring to the 3-gang switch as it was untidy, not covered or capped and running in a place I want to run network and speaker cables. I just connected the main feed into and out of the room together (for now), so at present there are no lights or switches in the room. The idea being I'd have a wireless switch and app to control Hue lighting - I guess the draw back to this is there is no way of controlling the lights if wi-fi drops, other than going into the pelmet and switch the socket/FCU to off... with no way of switching the lights on as well.

I could, in theory, place a switch to one set of lights in the corner below the wire not in the safe zone, so it would be bought into the safe zone? At least then I could control some lighting with a switch on the wall.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
so what you are saying is that you have a lighting feed in and out of the room??
Just to cover off the dodgy cat6 cable, this was run in a hurry when a BT engineer came over and I asked him to put the master socket into my hub, he said he'd do it if I ran a cat6 cable from the hub to this room while he repaired the socket outside, so I did this with the intention of chasing it in as I did up the lounge.
 

buzzlightyear

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Arms
Esteemed
Or I was thinking I could use FCU's with a 5amp fuse for each one, so one for down lights, one for wall lights and then an additional socket for the 2 x 10m led strips (these come with a plug). Could these FCU's just be spurred from the sockets or lighting circuit?
Or I was thinking I could get a spark in to check what I have done .
 
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  • #8
Or I was thinking I could get a spark in to check what I have done .
Honestly, I respect the profession and I've not done anything yet, other than remove the switch - the photographs are not my work but the electrician who was hired as part of work on an extension elsewhere in the house.

As I said in my introduction, I used to work well with an electrician who said my work was really good and he was happy to check it for me and sign off, but he has moved on now. This time timescales are tight due to a new baby due and so I'm trying to do it myself in order to get the room finished.
 
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  • #9
Do you understand that light fittings have max current ratings?
Yes I do understand that, so 1.5m2 cable is 15 amp. The lighting circuit breaker is 6A.
 

buzzlightyear

-
Arms
Esteemed
As I said in my introduction, I used to work well with an electrician who said my work was really good and he was happy to check it for me and sign off, but he has moved on now. This time timescales are tight due to a new baby due and so I'm trying to do it myself in order to get the room finished.
I appreciate people saving moneys ,but how ever you have not got any insurance for the any said works or maybe damage to your self .
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
I appreciate people saving moneys ,but how ever you have not got any insurance for the any said works or maybe damage to your self .
I get that, people do DIY electrical work all the time without giving any consideration to what they are doing, while I am not an experience professional, I have worked on industrial power supplies in a large factory in the past and also done a lot of wiring, checked by an electrician, in my old house. This is not necessarily money saving, this is getting a room completed ASAP. I fully understand the reaction on here now and maybe this isn't the right place to ask such questions as you cannot make recommendations.
 

buzzlightyear

-
Arms
Esteemed
here now and maybe this isn't the right place to ask such questions as you cannot make recommendations.
if you require a spark please look at the directory on here to see who is available .
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
why dont you just run it through a switch first then wire it in as a standard lighting circuit? can you no longer fit a switch?
I can do yes, but I figured as the Hue requires the switch to be permanently on and the wiring was left a bit messy/I'll have a pelmet/the ceiling is down, I'd take the switch out completely and house everything in the pelmet with the wireless switch/remote and app to control the lighting. I was thinking FCU for an override if the wi-fi drops out while the lights are on I can just switch it off. The led strip comes with a plug anyway, so I'd be best having a socket in the pelmet plus I need one to power a projector - with another fused spur.

Initially I chased down to the socket because I intended to move it below the cable not in the safe zone and then use the old chase to move the telephone socket up/over and run a speaker cable in for rear surrounds. The other option is to wire the down lights into a switch over there and the wall lights and just have a socket for the led's in the pelmet. The switch would be at the back of the room, so a bit out of the way, but it has to be on switched on for Hue anyway. Some people just connect the wires in the back of the box and then put the cover plate over the top of it.

The wiring you cannot see that I was left with, was a bunch of lever wagos just stuffed up into the ceiling void - while I know this doesn't break regulations, if I'd have left it and had a problem later, it would have been inaccessible! At least by bringing everything into the pelmet it is only fiddly rather than a case of pulling up boards or down ceilings.

The 13A plug was an idea on another forum but I would use a 5A fuse rather than a 13A as the LED's will only use around 110w per 10m length, so <500mA.
 
can you access above the ceiling - has it been boarded over?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
if you require a spark please look at the directory on here to see who is available .
I'll have a look, but I've tried a few recently and they are all stacked with work at the moment. Hue is designed to be DIY, I'm maybe going a stage further by introducing new sockets etc, but rather than running a load of spurs I'm adding them to the ring.

I have potentially a bigger job whereby the electricians on the build did not put in a new ring main or MCB for my utility room - it is obvious they just took the wiring from a socket in the bedroom above and used that. My concern is we have a washing machine, tumble dryer and all of my AV equipment out there - which to me is a lot of load on that circuit. This is definitely a job for a spark but less urgent.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
can you access above the ceiling - has it been boarded over?
No I pulled it down as part of the work I'm doing. I've run all my speaker, sub woofer and cat6 cables through and back to a hub. This is the issue at the moment, I want to get all cabling done so I can insulate and board the ceiling - I've a plasterer lined up, so I can get the walls and ceiling skimmed in time for the baby to arrive.

I've found another few photographs, the first, if you zoom in shows the lever wagos that were stuffed into the ceiling void before I took it down - all the cables running along and behind the cat6 cables to the switch have been removed, so I took out all but two of the lever wago connectors, so they just connect feed in and out now.

I intend to patch it where the cables were with hardwall, so the plasterer can skim the whole wall, then have a pelmet around the top with the led strips, down lights inside. I will replace the old wall lights with something a bit more modern and have 4 instead of 3 (so will re-position them).

cables and old chase near seating position.jpg

back to screen wall 2.jpg
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
Oh another thing, the wire just hanging down with a wago on it..... I put that wago on, that was just left there without anything on it - it is redundant, but I would have expected it to be tidied up in case someone found the other end and reconnected it!
 
O

Octopus

OP - you are unnecessarily complicating matters.

I would keep the 3 way switch and put each "type" of light on each switch. Then you have the ability to override or switch off the lights with ease (and so could anyone else)

Not having switches or relying on wifi switches is something I would not recommend.
 
well as you have taken the ceiling down it makes sense to me to:
find positions of 8 downlights and run 1.5mm from a switch position and the from one downlight to the next. Do the same for the strip lights and the wall lights. that would seem simplest to me. take the permanent live from the ceiling down to the switch position. make everything good in a wago connector box.
 

Charlie_

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Arms
Don’t worry about the WiFi, Philips Hue is Zigbee.
Also have a look at the aurora smart lighting, they have now jumped in bed with Samsung so all the lighting products can be easily be controlled via Samsung audio visual products
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
OP - you are unnecessarily complicating matters.

I would keep the 3 way switch and put each "type" of light on each switch. Then you have the ability to override or switch off the lights with ease (and so could anyone else)

Not having switches or relying on wifi switches is something I would not recommend.
I don't doubt that, however I was a bit perturbed by how it was left, the wiring just clipped to the walls tightly packed together, no chase or capping, wagos stuffed in the ceiling, the use of the faulty old switch that sticks, the cable left outside the safe zone etc. I pulled it all out through annoyance really but also as I was thinking rako or lutron at first and thought I could neatly hide the wiring in the pelmet inside a wago box or similar. I guess in hindsight having it behind the hue dimmer switch in wagos will allow for the switch to be reinstated later on.
 
O

Octopus

I don't doubt that, however I was a bit perturbed by how it was left, the wiring just clipped to the walls tightly packed together, no chase or capping, wagos stuffed in the ceiling, the use of the faulty old switch that sticks, the cable left outside the safe zone etc.
Nothing surprises me these days ... that’s all very usual from people who don’t charge enough to do the job properly

Not capping when plastering is going to occur is plain stupid
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
well as you have taken the ceiling down it makes sense to me to:
find positions of 8 downlights and run 1.5mm from a switch position and the from one downlight to the next. Do the same for the strip lights and the wall lights. that would seem simplest to me. take the permanent live from the ceiling down to the switch position. make everything good in a wago connector box.
I'm thinking I could;

Take perm live down to where the wire outside the safe zone is, at the back of the room. Add a 2 gang switch here for downlights and wall lights which is set to on.

For the led strips I don't want to mess about cutting off the plugs, so adding a couple of double sockets inside the pelmet seems logical as I can then also plug in a projector to this or wire it into an FCU.

Or I put the chased socket under the wiring left outside the safe zone, so it cures that issue, then put the switch back where it was but for the downs and walls as a 2 gang. One question, if I run in mini trucking and then my cat6 and speaker cables in a different mini trunking, will this prevent interference?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
Don’t worry about the WiFi, Philips Hue is Zigbee.
Also have a look at the aurora smart lighting, they have now jumped in bed with Samsung so all the lighting products can be easily be controlled via Samsung audio visual products
Thanks Charlie, I just bought the hue Bridge and dimmer this evening, I like the look of smartthings though. Lutron looked good but no rgbs with that I'm told.
 
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  • #26
Nothing surprises me these days ... that’s all very usual from people who don’t charge enough to do the job properly

Not capping when plastering is going to occur is plain stupid
Exactly, I had the plasterer in to do some other work and he was about to use left over bonding to cover it before I stopped him, I don't know if it does anything to cables but I do know they should be covered properly.
 
O

Octopus

Exactly, I had the plasterer in to do some other work and he was about to use left over bonding to cover it before I stopped him, I don't know if it does anything to cables but I do know they should be covered properly.
Sadly it’s done a lot today ......
 
Regarding LED lighting problem, i always use hykolity. it's is the best plateform for any suggestion or solution related to LED lighting.
 
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