like for like shower

[Peter Woodford]

guys

if your replacing a like for like shower if its not rcd protected does this have to be done as well

 

[robskiing]

Yes mate definite and its recommended by the manufacturer and your own peace of mind.

 

[pushrod]

guys

if your replacing a like for like shower if its not rcd protected does this have to be done as well

Long after the event i know, but only found your question on a search. Answer is from HERE


EDQ10

If I replace an existing electric shower, do I now have to provide RCD protection for it?​

EDA10

No, unless RCD protection is required by the manufacturer’s installation instructions, or a new circuit is required (to provide for increased load, for example).​

134.1.1 510.2​

 

[antimatter]

According to their website / installation instructions, in Credas' website they don't mention RCD's but Tritions' do recommend the use use of a 30ma RCD.


Quote
-------

A 30mA residual current device (RCD) must
be installed in all UK electric and pumped
shower circuits. This may be part of the
consumer unit or a separate unit.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Long after the event i know, but only found your question on a search. Answer is from HERE


EDQ10

If I replace an existing electric shower, do I now have to provide RCD protection for it?​

EDA10

No, unless RCD protection is required by the manufacturer’s installation instructions, or a new circuit is required (to provide for increased load, for example).​

134.1.1 510.2​

I have to admit even if the manufacturers did not advise fitting a RCD I think as it's a shower it is the few times I would go against the guidance of the Regs and fit one.

Know if you have the proper disconnection time on a fuse or MCB it would be safe ....................but do like that additional protection of 30mA and 0.04 secs

 

[telectrix]

0.04?is that a typo?

 

[CRAGS]

40 milliseconds

 

[keniff]

aint that 0.04 secs the max cut out on additional protection? maybe.... :s

 

[SirKit Breaker]

It must be a shower that has been on the shelf for a while, or an import. All the main stream showers that I have fitted for the last year or 3 have all stated must have a RCD, or that it must be installed in accordance with BS7671 wiring regulations in which case it must have a RCD anyway.

Cheers......Howard

 

[keniff]

yeah to be fair sounds kinda girly, but i prob wouldnt get in a shower without a rcd therefor wouldnt install one without for a customer regardless of instructions

 

[olly w]

If you were to install an RCD would that then make the job notifiable?
Where as a like for like swap is not!

 

[pushrod]

If you were to install an RCD would that then make the job notifiable?
Where as a like for like swap is not!

If it is just a "like for like" and an rcbo i would give it a minor works cert and
would think it was not notifiable.

 

[malcolmsanford]

0.04?is that a typo?

0.04 = 40 milliseconds infuture will write 0.4mS but as I'm used to doing calcs I usually write it 0.04, sorry for any confusion

 

[shagg]

If it is just a "like for like" and an rcbo i would give it a minor works cert and
would think it was not notifiable.

Even if it is a like for like, it can go on a minor works cert but will still need notifing as it's a special location

 

[pushrod]

Even if it is a like for like, it can go on a minor works cert but will still need notifing as it's a special location

Like for like replacements are not notifiable, even if carried out in a special locations, unless it is a consumer unit.
Have a read of the IEE's electrician's guide to the building regs,parts b and c on page 22.

 

[robsparky1975]

40ms you mean for 5x cycle on rcd trip? or 400ms for circuits upto 32a,would a shower not be 5 secs disconnection for a circuit breaker than,anyway i would be inclined to advise the additional protection of an rcd to bring it up to 17th edition.

 

[olly w]

If it is just a "like for like" and an rcbo i would give it a minor works cert and
would think it was not notifiable.

I thought altering the protective device of any circuit made it notifiable?

 

[pushrod]

I thought altering the protective device of any circuit made it notifiable?

I have not come across that in the books that i have read, but that is not to say that i have just not read that particular bit. In general notifiable work involves new circuits back to the CU, and extensions/additions to circuits in places like kitchens, bathrooms and gardens ie special locations and installations.

Like for like (with the exception of a complete CU), repair and maintenance even in a bathroom are not notifiable. I think that is because if it is notifiable there has to be at least something of design to inspect. I can't really see that an LABC could justify a £100+ fee to a skilled person for coming out to check the replacement of a 32A mcb for a 32A rcbo, but who can tell with an LABC

 

[malcolmsanford]

Don't think you will either Pushrod


(c) re-fixing or replacing enclosures of existing
installation components, where the circuit
protective measures are unaffected;

(d) providing mechanical protection to an existing
fixed installation, where the circuit protective
measures and current carrying capacity of
conductors are unaffected by the increased thermal
insulation.

These can sometimes lead to confusion as they are classed as non notifiable, and they are as far as I can remember the only reference to protection devices in Part P, but sure somewhere hidden there will be.

 

[pushrod]

Don't think you will either Pushrod


These can sometimes lead to confusion as they are classed as non notifiable, and they are as far as I can remember the only reference to protection devices in Part P, but sure somewhere hidden there will be.

Yup Malcolm somewhere in a dingy cupboard at Part P offices there is a man writing obscure limited edition publications just trying to confuse the issue to make our lives harder