Discuss Live Working in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Jimmy Boy

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OK define it, bearing in mind the EAWR and HSE ?

You have a lock off on a single phase CU, the DNO has not provided an isolator, you need to add another circuit...so the bus bar is off but not the incomers are you working 'Live' ??

J
 

telectrix

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if the main switch in the CU is OFF, then you ain't working live. but if so, then you are dead, so can't work
 
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Jimmy Boy

Jimmy Boy

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Tel mate think about it.if anything is live in the CU it's LIVE the CU isn't dead only after the MS load side it's Live working

J
 

telectrix

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OK, so say there's an isolator before the CU. it's only dead after the isolator, so still live working? as far as i'm concerned, if the bits i'm touching are dead, then it's not live working.
 
1

1shortcircuit

On an assessment you must make sure that you turn off the main switch before removing the front cover. If you were still classed as working live then you would fail your assessment because you are not allowed to work LIVE.

Now if the main switch was off but you were working ON the incoming tails THEN I would say that is LIVE working?
 

HandySparks

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The thing I hate is the old Wylex rewirable boards where the little push-on covers for the incoming terminal screws have fallen off and got lost, or never fitted in the first place. It's too easy for some stray wire to brush against the exposed line terminal.

And another thing. How did anyone design a board where the main switch has to be moved slightly from the off position in order to remove or re-fit the cover?

Give me a nice modern board where the tails fit snugly into the top of the main switch any day. (Provided the sparky who fitted it did his job properly and not left half an inch of bare copper on the tails.)
 

thekingiam

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another scenareo main isolator is rcd, chaging cu and tails to rcd, rcd is in off position but live incomers live working or not? the live terminals are about two inces from dead ones have to open box which contains live parts? surely working with live?
 
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1shortcircuit

another scenareo main isolator is rcd, chaging cu and tails to rcd, rcd is in off position but live incomers live working or not? the live terminals are about two inces from dead ones have to open box which contains live parts? surely working with live?
The upfront RCD's I have worked on have two separate covers. One for in coming and one for outgoing?

I'll have to look in my shed to see if I have any like you describe? If I have I didn't notice it or give it the slightest thought but having said that I'm a puller anyway so I know it's isolated lol

*Tin Hat and away we go* :D
 
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Jimmy Boy

Jimmy Boy

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The reason I pose this question is because it seems there is a move within some organisations to removal all risk of accidental touching of any Live part , for example being told by some assessors that we can't do a live Zs test on a pendant drop and to do it by calculation, so this being the case the same assessor should not allow the removal of the CU cover to do dead/live tests as the nasty incomer only has finger protection only, I can't believe that the elf and safety brigade haven't cottoned on to this yet an isolator before the CU should be a legal requirement to comply with EAWR

J
 

thekingiam

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an isolator before cu in my opinion should be a legal requirement but as always health and safety is only there if it doesn't cost the big dno 's too much monney.
i am suprised that the eawr hasn't insisted on this as a gradual change over as the dno do with out of date meters, the cost of an rcd or isolator would not cost much in the bulk buying power they have and a few pense could be added to peoples tarrifs.
the dno's obviously ownly care about making sure the public pay up and not preventing accidents.
 
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Jimmy Boy

Jimmy Boy

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You have to work live when doing a Ze or a PFC in front of the assessor I'm not worried dude it's just the bollox of it all

J
 

trev

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So following the (il)logic all live tests should be banned, no more Ze, IR, live polarity etc etc. Do these idiots not realise that by virtue of the training the majority of us have been through we know how to do these things safely.
No wonder the world is going to hell in a handcart
 

Geordie Spark

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Lost in the ozone - again !!
So following the (il)logic all live tests should be banned, no more Ze, IR, live polarity etc etc. Do these idiots not realise that by virtue of the training the majority of us have been through we know how to do these things safely.
No wonder the world is going to hell in a handcart
It's the all controlling nanny state bonny lad - they don't want us sheeple to have the luxury of being able to think for ourselves.
 

oldtimer

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The thing I hate is the old Wylex rewirable boards where the little push-on covers for the incoming terminal screws have fallen off and got lost, or never fitted in the first place. It's too easy for some stray wire to brush against the exposed line terminal.

And another thing. How did anyone design a board where the main switch has to be moved slightly from the off position in order to remove or re-fit the cover?

Give me a nice modern board where the tails fit snugly into the top of the main switch any day. (Provided the sparky who fitted it did his job properly and not left half an inch of bare copper on the tails.)

You forgot to mention the the neutral bar on the old wylex is right above the live main incomer on the isolator so if you switch off the board to disconnect circuits then you are mm from the main DNO supply and still they will not fit isolators I think this should be manditory when changing the meter or service head but I can always dream

I forgot to add that some of the neutral terminals are behind the main incomer and the spark who fitted it left 10mm bare cable because he could not be bothered
 
K

Knobhead

When will these do gooders realise live working can’t be avoided at times. It’s a fact of life we just have to get used to.
I had no choice as a youngster in the trade. A lot of our gear was 30/40 years old when I started, bare copper everywhere. You just got used to it, start getting blasé about it and it soon reminded you it was there.

You’re your own H&S officer, if you don’t think it’s safe, don’t do it.
 

Archy Styrigg

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Work on or near live conductors
14. No person shall be engaged in any work activity on or so near any live conductor (other than
one suitably covered with insulating material so as to prevent danger)
that danger may arise unless–
(a) it is unreasonable in all the circumstances for it to be dead; and
(b) it is reasonable in all the circumstances for him to be at work on or near it while it is live;
and
(c) suitable precautions (including where necessary the provision of suitable protective
equipment) are taken to prevent injury.
From EWR 1989. Note highlighted phrase. In a CU everything is insulated (or should be) or IP2X, that says to me one is not working live.

Is this more NICEIC clap trap?
 
S

shocking_eg

you tend to take more care when working live or near live terminals, and you soon learn when you get a bolt off it!
that's what training is all about !
 
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