Discuss Main bonding..... yet again! in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

HappyHippyDad

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Afternoon all..

Settling down to a fancy coffee from the new fancy coffee machine and as you do on a sunday afternoon I started thing about bonding :).

Quite often the kitchen fitter, DIY homeowner etc has built around the Main bonding connection for the water and it is neither visible or accessible.

It can be costly for a new bonding cable to be run especially when there 'may' already be one but it is just not visible.

Previously if I saw a 2 x 6mm or 10mm cables leaving the CU (as well as the Main earth) and the water incoming pipe tested as 0.05 ohms or less to earth I would class it as having a satisfactory bond. However, it rarely comes back as 0.05 ohms or less so a new cable is needed unless I take part of the kitchen cabinet apart and see the cable.

Also, the 10mm cable leaving the CU may not actually go to water and the water may just be joined to another earthed pipework with a 1mm somewhere thus giving a good reading to earth.

What do you lot do when you cant see the Main bond clamp?

Cheers everyone.
 
Thats pretty much what I do Anthony, however what would you do if you cant see the connection and lets say you get a reading of 0.2 ohms?
 
you're wrong there about the 0.05 ohms. that is the max. reading you should get from the boding conductor to the extraneous metal to which it is bonded ( I.E. across the clamp.) it is NOT the resistance of the cable.
 
Use a wander lead and test to the water pipe to the bonding conductor in the board if it is less that 0.05 ohms then i would say its fine and just note down that the clamp is inacessable to view or check.

Also agree with tel above 0.05 is not the cable its to the pipe it is connected to as you always test on the pipe not the clamp
 
As mentioned before I am on a site gutted refurb and the floor has been cut out for a platform lift the floor where it has been cut out has been supported by metal girders bolted to the concrete purlins all metalwork has been sprayed with fire-resistant paint this is to the floors between ground and first and first and second opinions should they be bonded?
 
Another figure bandied around is 0.02 Mohms or 20 Ohms.
Well I don't know it seems that the 0.05 ohms relates to the resistance of the banding conductor and the connection vis the Earth clamp on the pipework, it does seem quite clear from GN3 and the numerous you tube videos from respected engineers that the case involves the bonding conductor AND the earth clamp's connection to the pipework. As can be seen from the statement that the length of the Main bonding conductor has some bearing on the problem. One statement suggests that anything over 25mtrs the conductor csa should be increased, which in my eyes confirms that the resistance reading does include the bonding conductor, and not just the resistance of the pipe and the earth clamp. I do agree with some that the reading should be taken from the disconnected bonding conductor and the PIPE as described in the video that was posted earlier. Just saying.
 
BS 7671 is clear about the requirements for the cross-sectional area (csa) of protective conductors but says nothing directly about their length.

Take, for example, the requirements for main protective bonding conductors in Table 54.8 of Regulation 544.1.1. Instructions are stated for the minimum csa but no requirements are given for their maximum length<sup>1</sup>.

As a general guide, main bonding conductors should be as short as possible but there are situations where they may need to be much longer than normal.



Maximum length of main bonding conductors
One way in which the maximum length can be determined is to use the figure of 0.05Ω given in IET Guidance Note 3 (GN3), Inspection and Testing, Section 2.6.5. This gives the maximum resistance of a main protective bonding conductor measured from end-to-end when carrying out test method 2.<sup>2</sup>

The 0.05Ω figure is sometimes used as a rule of thumb but the origin of this – and if it is being used for its original purpose – is uncertain<sup>3</sup>.

Worked Example 1 shows how the 0.05Ω figure can be used to calculate a theoretical maximum length of a main bonding conductor.



Worked Example 1
Calculate the maximum length of a 10mm<sup>2</sup> main bonding conductor.



Solution
Obtain the resistance per metre of 10mm<sup>2</sup> cable. Table I1 of the On-Site Guide (OSG) – and Table B1 of GN3 – gives the resistance as 1.83 mΩ/metre (0.00183 Ω/m). The maximum length L of a 10mm<sup>2</sup> main protective bonding conductor can be found from:

0.05 Ω

L = 0.00183 Ω/m = 27.3 metres

However, if a 10mm<sup>2</sup> main protective bonding conductor is longer than 27.3 metres, it is not possible to say with certainty that it is unacceptable because, as a conductor increases in length its resistance will also increase.



Appendix B of GN 3
In order to get expected resistance values for cables and connections when using Test Method 2, GN 3 refers to the resistance data in Appendix B. Table 1 uses the data from Appendix B for some typical copper main protective bonding conductors showing the resistances for various lengths.



Comparing Table 1 with the 0.05Ω figure
It can be seen in Table 1 that the 0.05Ω figure is acceptable for some cable sizes and lengths but not for others.

The 0.05Ω figure used in Worked Example 1 resulted in a maximum length of 27.3 metres for a 10mm<sup>2</sup> copper main protective bonding conductor. By comparison, Table 1 indicates that the resistance of a 10mm<sup>2</sup> main protective bonding conductor between 25 and 30 metres in length is 0.05Ω. In this case the figure of 27.3 metres in Worked Example 1 is accurate<sup>4</sup>.

Any test of a disconnected protective bonding conductor should indicate its continuity is satisfactory and its resistance is in relation to its csa and length. This may be greater than 0.05Ω.



Conclusion
Table 1 indicates that the 0.05 Ω figure is accurate for the larger cables sizes – 16mm<sup>2</sup>, 25mm<sup>2</sup> and 35mm<sup>2</sup> – up to a length of around 45 metres.

For 10mm<sup>2</sup> conductors, it is accurate up to 30 metres but for 6mm<sup>2</sup> conductors it is accurate up to 15 metres.

It should be noted that not all test instruments can read such low values as those shown in Table 1. The accuracy of the test instrument must also be considered.

Such lengths for main protective bonding conductors are quite unusual. Shorter lengths which are within the 0.05Ω figure are much more common.

Next month we will consider how the maximum length of supplementary bonding conductors can be obtained.



Endnotes
  1. Table 54.8 links the size of main bonding conductors to the size of the supply neutral conductor for PME supplies. As the size of the supply neutral conductor may be difficult to obtain, this is usually taken to be the same as the size of the main tails.
  2. The 0.05Ω figure is mentioned again in Chapter 1 of IET Guidance Note 7 Special Locations in connection with supplementary bonding in locations with a bath or shower. It states: “In practice the resistance between bonded extraneous conductive parts and exposed conductive parts should not exceed 0.05Ω.” The key word in this statement is bonded as parallel paths will have an effect causing values to be reduced when tested.
  3. Some believe that the 0.05Ω figure originated as the maximum expected value for the connection of the bonding conductor to an extraneous- conductive part – that is the resistance across the connection itself rather than the resistance of the bonding conductor. Others regard it as the recommended maximum resistance of the length of the main bonding conductor.
  4. We might consider the use of the maximum prospective earth fault current (PEFC) as a possible means of determining the length of main protective bonding conductors but this method gives an impractically low value – at least if the PEFC is taken to be 16,000A. If the conventional maximum figure for touch voltage of 50V is divided by 16,000 amps in order to obtain the maximum resistance of the bonding conductor – in order to then obtain a maximum length – we arrive at a figure of 0.003Ω.
Comparing this with the values in Table 1 shows this value to be unrealistic.



Further reading:

IET On-Site Guide.

IET Guidance Note 3 Inspection and Testing.

IET Guidance Note 7 Special Locations.

IET Guidance Note 8 Earthing and Bonding.

Taken from the IET
 
BS 7671 is clear about the requirements for the cross-sectional area (csa) of protective conductors but says nothing directly about their length.

Take, for example, the requirements for main protective bonding conductors in Table 54.8 of Regulation 544.1.1. Instructions are stated for the minimum csa but no requirements are given for their maximum length<sup>1</sup>.

As a general guide, main bonding conductors should be as short as possible but there are situations where they may need to be much longer than normal.



Maximum length of main bonding conductors
One way in which the maximum length can be determined is to use the figure of 0.05Ω given in IET Guidance Note 3 (GN3), Inspection and Testing, Section 2.6.5. This gives the maximum resistance of a main protective bonding conductor measured from end-to-end when carrying out test method 2.<sup>2</sup>

The 0.05Ω figure is sometimes used as a rule of thumb but the origin of this – and if it is being used for its original purpose – is uncertain<sup>3</sup>.

Worked Example 1 shows how the 0.05Ω figure can be used to calculate a theoretical maximum length of a main bonding conductor.



Worked Example 1
Calculate the maximum length of a 10mm<sup>2</sup> main bonding conductor.



Solution
Obtain the resistance per metre of 10mm<sup>2</sup> cable. Table I1 of the On-Site Guide (OSG) – and Table B1 of GN3 – gives the resistance as 1.83 mΩ/metre (0.00183 Ω/m). The maximum length L of a 10mm<sup>2</sup> main protective bonding conductor can be found from:

0.05 Ω

L = 0.00183 Ω/m = 27.3 metres

However, if a 10mm<sup>2</sup> main protective bonding conductor is longer than 27.3 metres, it is not possible to say with certainty that it is unacceptable because, as a conductor increases in length its resistance will also increase.



Appendix B of GN 3
In order to get expected resistance values for cables and connections when using Test Method 2, GN 3 refers to the resistance data in Appendix B. Table 1 uses the data from Appendix B for some typical copper main protective bonding conductors showing the resistances for various lengths.



Comparing Table 1 with the 0.05Ω figure
It can be seen in Table 1 that the 0.05Ω figure is acceptable for some cable sizes and lengths but not for others.

The 0.05Ω figure used in Worked Example 1 resulted in a maximum length of 27.3 metres for a 10mm<sup>2</sup> copper main protective bonding conductor. By comparison, Table 1 indicates that the resistance of a 10mm<sup>2</sup> main protective bonding conductor between 25 and 30 metres in length is 0.05Ω. In this case the figure of 27.3 metres in Worked Example 1 is accurate<sup>4</sup>.

Any test of a disconnected protective bonding conductor should indicate its continuity is satisfactory and its resistance is in relation to its csa and length. This may be greater than 0.05Ω.



Conclusion
Table 1 indicates that the 0.05 Ω figure is accurate for the larger cables sizes – 16mm<sup>2</sup>, 25mm<sup>2</sup> and 35mm<sup>2</sup> – up to a length of around 45 metres.

For 10mm<sup>2</sup> conductors, it is accurate up to 30 metres but for 6mm<sup>2</sup> conductors it is accurate up to 15 metres.

It should be noted that not all test instruments can read such low values as those shown in Table 1. The accuracy of the test instrument must also be considered.

Such lengths for main protective bonding conductors are quite unusual. Shorter lengths which are within the 0.05Ω figure are much more common.

Next month we will consider how the maximum length of supplementary bonding conductors can be obtained.



Endnotes
  1. Table 54.8 links the size of main bonding conductors to the size of the supply neutral conductor for PME supplies. As the size of the supply neutral conductor may be difficult to obtain, this is usually taken to be the same as the size of the main tails.
  2. The 0.05Ω figure is mentioned again in Chapter 1 of IET Guidance Note 7 Special Locations in connection with supplementary bonding in locations with a bath or shower. It states: “In practice the resistance between bonded extraneous conductive parts and exposed conductive parts should not exceed 0.05Ω.” The key word in this statement is bonded as parallel paths will have an effect causing values to be reduced when tested.
  3. Some believe that the 0.05Ω figure originated as the maximum expected value for the connection of the bonding conductor to an extraneous- conductive part – that is the resistance across the connection itself rather than the resistance of the bonding conductor. Others regard it as the recommended maximum resistance of the length of the main bonding conductor.
  4. We might consider the use of the maximum prospective earth fault current (PEFC) as a possible means of determining the length of main protective bonding conductors but this method gives an impractically low value – at least if the PEFC is taken to be 16,000A. If the conventional maximum figure for touch voltage of 50V is divided by 16,000 amps in order to obtain the maximum resistance of the bonding conductor – in order to then obtain a maximum length – we arrive at a figure of 0.003Ω.
Comparing this with the values in Table 1 shows this value to be unrealistic.



Further reading:

IET On-Site Guide.

IET Guidance Note 3 Inspection and Testing.

IET Guidance Note 7 Special Locations.

IET Guidance Note 8 Earthing and Bonding.

Taken from the IET
Hi Rob, thanks for this, I'm having a thick moment, and no access to GN3 where or what is the "m" in your formulae?
Rob sussed it after numerous mugs of tea, and waking up, thanks again, please ignore my request, you have my permission to put a dumb if you feel like it I won't be offended.
 
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