UK Making an outside light permanently live

[RodUrquhart]

I have three way switch in my kitchen, with from left to right switch one turns on and off the PIR activated outdoor light, switch two turns on the hallway light and switch three turns on the main kitchen downlighters (though these can be turned on/off at other switches within the kitchen) What I am trying to achieve is to rewire switch one so that the power to the outdoor light is permanently on as it is a PIR light and only works with motion detection at night for 2 mins delay and there is no point in being able to switch it off internally in the house. I want to be able to replace the faceplate to a two switch version and bypass the now defunct switch one function with a connection block to join the relevant wires together and make the outdoor light permanently live. I have attached a picture to show how it is currently wired. Left to right orientation is as per how it is mounted on the wall.

For clarity at the top of the image from left to right the labels are L3, L2, L1*, L3, L2. The ones along the bottom are from left to right: L1*, L3, L2, L1. The asterisk denotes a bridging wire (see image) that connects these two specific posts. Can anyone suggest a way to do this?

 

[westward10]

Your new switch should have similar or the same terminal markings. The brown in L1 on the left switch connect to L1 of the middle switch along with the black from L2 on the left switch, ditch the link wire. If this works you should be able to transfer this to the new switch.

 

[Dan]

Just removed an unhelpful post. Apologies for that.

What he meant to say was, you're welcome to post the job in the following forum if you'd prefer to get an electrician in: Electrical Work Up For Grabs - https://www.electriciansforums.net/forums/electrical-work-up-for-grabs.196/

Though as for guidance with the actual issue, hang in there, somebody may be along soon to help out.

 

[westward10]

Do what I suggest with the existing switch first to see if it works.

 

[westward10]

Just noticed the blue wire floating about in the back box. That needs connecting into a connector block as I assume it is a spare conductor.

 

[James]

2 things,

1...the blue wire that is floating around should realy be terminated into something, a wago or chock block would be the normal method.

2... if it were my house, I would replace it with a 3 way switch, 1 secret key sw, 2 normal 2 way switches on a single faceplate.

 

[Dan]

I assume if he was going to get a sparky in, he would have done.

So if you can't contribute helpfully to the post, just don't reply perhaps.

Plenty of other posts to troll matey.

 

[westward10]

Assumption is the root of all accidents Westy.

Pete I have closed many a DIY thread where the only solution is professional help. Light switch replacements however can often be resolved where the OP gives clear helpful pics. In this instance I am confident my advice is correct.

 

[littlespark]

Try as Westy suggests.

@James the Spark1976 well spotted the spare blue... but making a 3 gang as you suggest with a keyswitch for the PIR light would mean a gridswitch, and you’re need to fit a double box to get a 3 gang grid in

 

[James]

Try as Westy suggests.

@James the Spark1976 well spotted the spare blue... but making a 3 gang as you suggest with a keyswitch for the PIR light would mean a gridswitch, and you’re need to fit a double box to get a 3 gang grid in

Dam it, I thought that almost as soon as I had posted it, but then got distracted with ordering the parts for tomorrows job. well done for spotting my error @littlespark .

p.s. I agree this is a simple task for a novice, as per westy's post.

first of all though if you haven't got any test gear to prove the circuit is safe to work on, get a torch and turn the big red switch off to isolate all power.

there is a possibility that the switch on the right could be powered from a different circuit breaker or fuse to the switches in the middle and left position.

it can happen when you start moving cables around that an unexpected cable jumps out of a terminal and stabs you in the back of the hand, If it is live when that happens it WILL HURT A LOT.

 

[RodUrquhart]

Thanks for all the replies thus far, granted whilst I am not a qualified electrician I am quite capable of isolating the power and yes I will terminate the blue wires in the void of the switch housing as pointed out by some. Only recently moved into the house so not my handywork here. However I have no reason to expect any other horrors elsewhere. With respect to Westward10's reply, just to be clear if I replicate all the connections on the new 2 switch faceplate and move the brown wire from bottom left L1 to top middle L1 and the black wire from top left L2 to top middle L1 and bin the bridging wire it should work. If so I will isolate supply and transfer all wires over to new faceplate. With both brown and black former switch one wires in L1 of what will be the left hand switch of two switches on the new faceplate will the outdoor light then be permanently live as desired? Also will this not affect operation of the hallway light which is the middle switch on the current 3 switch setup. Lastly why have they used a bridging wire here instead of simply using each respective L1, L2, L3 switch positions in isolation? PS I have a multimeter in my armoury for testing purposes.

 

[westward10]

Can you show a clear pic of the new switch to confirm.

 

[RodUrquhart]

Your new switch should have similar or the same terminal markings. The brown in L1 on the left switch connect to L1 of the middle switch along with the black from L2 on the left switch, ditch the link wire. If this works you should be able to transfer this to the new switch.

Thanks Westward10. I will try it. Here's an image of the new faceplate


[automerge]1569266220[/automerge]
Ive labelled the image for ease of explanation Westward10


[automerge]1569266327[/automerge]

Do what I suggest with the existing switch first to see if it works.

Will do. Thanks

 

[westward10]

That isn't a great quality light switch but here goes. Try and do this one wire at a time to save getting them mixed up.
From the old switch, right side. Brown from the old L1 into Common.
The brown and blue from the old L2 and L3 into 1 Way and 2 Way (doesn't matter which way around).
From the old switch, left side and middle. Grey from L2 into 1 Way. The black from L2 and the brown from L1 both into Common. Ditch the link wire.
POWER OFF and one wire at a time.

 

[RodUrquhart]

That isn't a great quality light switch but here goes. Try and do this one wire at a time to save getting them mixed up.
From the old switch, right side. Brown from the old L1 into Common.
The brown and blue from the old L2 and L3 into 1 Way and 2 Way (doesn't matter which way around).
From the old switch, left side and middle. Grey from L2 into 1 Way. The black from L2 and the brown from L1 both into Common. Ditch the link wire.
POWER OFF and one wire at a time.

Awesome thank you. I will test the connections on the original switch plate then transfer into the new faceplate if all is ok. I will let you know how it goes tomorrow. Thanks again

 

[westward10]

The way you have marked the new switch in #13 is correct.

 

[RodUrquhart]

Thanks Westward10 for the excellent description and just wanted to let you know all worked well first time right off the bat. Brilliant!

 

[KennyKen]

Hey just out of curiosity what’s with the moderators having gorilla avatars?

 

[Zerax]

Hey just out of curiosity what’s with the moderators having gorilla avatars?

Oh ! So they're not actual pictures ??

 

[westward10]

Thanks Westward10 for the excellent description and just wanted to let you know all worked well first time right off the bat. Brilliant!

No worries mate glad you sorted it.