Discuss Mcc panels and their Appropriate standard in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Ian1981

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Can anyone tell me if a MCC panel is covered by BSEN 60294 and therefore is excluded from the scope of bs7671 as far as the scope of any inspection and testing of the fixed wiring for the installation?
Thanks.
 
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netblindpaul

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It is excluded from BS 7671 as it is a product, covered by the Low Voltage Directive and thus a product standard.
However, they would fall under the (BS EN) IEC 61439 series.
Not,
BS EN 60294:2012
Measurement of the dimensions of a cylindrical component with axial terminations
 

Ian1981

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It is excluded from BS 7671 as it is a product, covered by the Low Voltage Directive and thus a product standard.
However, they would fall under the (BS EN) IEC 61439 series.
Not,
BS EN 60294:2012
Measurement of the dimensions of a cylindrical component with axial terminations
So for the purpose of inspection and testing, only the wiring supplying the panel is applicable to bs7671 and the associated wiring to motor controls and VSD circuits are excluded from the scope of bs7671 and the fixed wiring testing?
If so then who would a client need to see regarding any inspection and testing of the MCC wiring?
 

LeeH

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You can apply the basics tests, the issue is proving ADS using the normal ‘test and inspection’ methods applied to fixed wiring.

For example, VSD manufactures won’t supply tripping curves but state maximum disconnection times under earth faults.

All you can do is the basics but be aware of applying test voltages to sensitive equipment.
 
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The extent of the testing should be agreed beforehand.
If they want cables to motors tested, you would have to agree the methodology first.
 

LeeH

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Can I ask your definition of MCC?

Is this a custom built control panel full of drives, plc, safety circuit etc?

I believe BS EN 60204 may be the correct regulations in question.
 

Ian1981

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Can I ask your definition of MCC?

Is this a custom built control panel full of drives, plc, safety circuit etc?

I believe BS EN 60204 may be the correct regulations in question.
Motor control centre
Contains internal mcbs,fused, variable speed drives, contractors, overload relays and the like for conveyer machines for food packaging etc
 

darkwood

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My first question is who is asking and why, is this a insurance request for a condition report of the installation and/or are they asking for a risk assessment and inspection on the machinery, or are you just querying if its supposed to be included.

It often depends on the type of insurance cover that has raised the request as to what is required to satisfy them.
 

Ian1981

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My first question is who is asking and why, is this a insurance request for a condition report of the installation and/or are they asking for a risk assessment and inspection on the machinery, or are you just querying if its supposed to be included.

It often depends on the type of insurance cover that has raised the request as to what is required to satisfy them.
Querying if it’s to be included as the maintenance supervisor of the factory wants a condition report done to the whole site as it’s never had one in its existence (around 20-25 years old).
He was the one who pointed out to me if this should be included in the report and too be honest I wasn’t 100% sure.
Usually my inspection and extent of the testing ends at the supply to say a panel , be it a BMS type or a control panel of a similar description.
Either way he wants some kind of inspection on the MCC panels, so if it’s not a requirement of bs7671 then they won’t be included on my report, it maybe that if it does get inspected then it is separate to that of the site fixed wiring report.
What is to be included is the supply’s to the various isolators to the conveyor machinery such as a label controller, X-ray machine, scales etc.
 
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darkwood

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I see, as already mentioned explain to him that your periodic condition report is limited as far as the machine supply only, any inspection and report on the machinery itself would be an independent body if that is not your field, he would then need to decide if he is after a risk assessment and/or condition report on the machines and whether some of this is covered by maintenance teams who may be looking after the machinery.

If he is a maintenance supervisor then can we assume he has a maintenance team who repair and maintain the machinery, there report logs and event/maintenance schedules will be probably what he is after to cover the machines or are the maintenance trying to pass the book because they don't won't the responsibility.
 

Ian1981

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I see, as already mentioned explain to him that your periodic condition report is limited as far as the machine supply only, any inspection and report on the machinery itself would be an independent body if that is not your field, he would then need to decide if he is after a risk assessment and/or condition report on the machines and whether some of this is covered by maintenance teams who may be looking after the machinery.

If he is a maintenance supervisor then can we assume he has a maintenance team who repair and maintain the machinery, there report logs and event/maintenance schedules will be probably what he is after to cover the machines or are the maintenance trying to pass the book because they don't won't the responsibility.
The fact the installation has had numerous alterations and additions to the wiring, DB’s piggybacked off other DB’s and the like with no sniff of a minor works or electrical installation certificate tells me all I need to know, that there’s not much maintenance logging or at least not much record keeping going on.
And they say the domestic sector of the industry is bad..........
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated to all
 
The fact the installation has had numerous alterations and additions to the wiring, DB’s piggybacked off other DB’s and the like with no sniff of a minor works or electrical installation certificate tells me all I need to know, that there’s not much maintenance logging or at least not much record keeping going on.
And they say the domestic sector of the industry is bad..........
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated to all
I've done many many jobs in food and beverage factories, software mods on existing machines, safety upgrades etc. The overriding common theme is the lack of drawings and the amount of bodges to keep production going.
 
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