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Discuss Mini Fridge causing TV to black out ! in the Electrical Appliances Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hi all,

My apologies in advance if this is posted in the wrong category, there were a few options it could've potentially fallen under.

We have just completed our garage to home cinema conversion, but having a small (major!) issue. In the Cinema we have all the usual tech you'd expect, a projector, Denon Receiver (amplifier), YouView Box, Firestick, etc etc.
We also have a mini-fridge. All this runs on a 20A Radial.

When the compressor on the fridge fires up, it sets the screen blank. Through process of elimination I've narrowed this down to being the receiver at fault, rather than the projector. When the compressor turns off, there's no interference.

I have been advised this could be one of two things, RF interference, or the current being drawn from the fridge is causing a voltage drop. This I think is unlikely because we're not talking about a big american sized fridge freezer, it's a mini-fridge pulling 65 watts at max load!

In a bid to fix either of these issues, I have ordered a UPS to run the tech from . But my question is, is it Normal for the fridge to be causing interference? i.e. Do I need to think about getting the fridge replaced? In hindsight it wouldn't have been difficult to run a separate circuit for the fridge when doing first fix, but it's a bit late for that now. We have always had our Kitchen sockets on the same ring as the lounge and never had an issue with the kitchen fridge interfering with the lounge TV, so the wiring setup in the cinema isn't anything out of the ordinary I don't think?

Would appreciate any advice and apologies for rambling on
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
I should add that when the screen goes blank, if I change the input channel on the receiver, and put it back to the one it was on, it's fine again even whilst the fridge is running.
 

Pete999

-
Arms Access
Only when the fridge compressor starts up, all on the same circuit? I recon you have a volt drop problem, with all that sensitive kit on one circuit with the fridge, fridge starts up, compressor dragging the voltage down, electronics not liking the V, pretty sure that's the reason unless one of the Scientists on the Forum can conjure up a good reason.
 
Best guess is the receiver is oversensitive to spikes on the mains, although fridge compressors are low power, they're inductive and switching can produce some hefty transients, especially if a sluggish thermostat isn't switching cleanly. If it's that your UPS will probably filter it out although it's an expensive way to get a filter.

To investigate I'd try running the fridge on an extension from another ring if one is near enough, if that stops the problem then it's likely to be conducted spikes on the mains and a filter should clean it up. If it doesn't help then it could be radiated noise in which case the radio check suggested by @static zap would be a good thing to try.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Only when the fridge compressor starts up, all on the same circuit? I recon you have a volt drop problem, with all that sensitive kit on one circuit with the fridge, fridge starts up, compressor dragging the voltage down, electronics not liking the V, pretty sure that's the reason unless one of the Scientists on the Forum can conjure up a good reason.
I've just tr
Best guess is the receiver is oversensitive to spikes on the mains, although fridge compressors are low power, they're inductive and switching can produce some hefty transients, especially if a sluggish thermostat isn't switching cleanly. If it's that your UPS will probably filter it out although it's an expensive way to get a filter.

To investigate I'd try running the fridge on an extension from another ring if one is near enough, if that stops the problem then it's likely to be conducted spikes on the mains and a filter should clean it up. If it doesn't help then it could be radiated noise in which case the radio check suggested by @static zap would be a good thing to try.

Thank you, so... I've tried what you suggested. Ran an extension cord from the hallway which is a different circuit, fridge is cutting in and out with no interference to anything.
I have "sort of" fixed it after lots of extension leads and unplugging/plugging in cables.... and it's not the receiver that is being affected like I initially thought.
The thing that was confusing me is that this has only just come about these last few weeks, so I was thinking what have I done in there the last few weeks. Then I remembered, I installed this cheap little IR Extender a few weeks back,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01A6WBMC6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

when I removed this then I don't get any interference from the fridge even when it's plugged in on the same circuit. I've concluded that the the little adaptor that sits inline between the receiver and projector is not shielded (or very cheaply made) so is allowing the interference to interfere with the HDMI signal - does this seem a realistic explanation? I have a reasonable understanding of all this but this is going over my head a little.

So my concern is, is the fridge causing this interference an issue- do I need to fix the actual cause of the issue, or is it quite "normal" for a fridge to do this? Also, I have ordered some of these: 20Magnetic Clip-on Ferrite Ring Core RFI EMI Noise Suppressor 3.5/5/7/9/13MM 786862921287 | eBay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20Magnetic-Clip-on-Ferrite-Ring-Core-RFI-EMI-Noise-Suppressor-3-5-5-7-9-13MM/123374559640?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648

To put one on the cable of the fridge- Good idea?

Again, sorry for the long post but the help is much, much appreciated !
 
I think you're on the right track suspecting that IR extender, don't know how it transmits the remote signal down the HDMI alongside the regular digital data but it's plausible that noise from the fridge is being picked up from the receiver and corrupting the HDMI link.

If the extender allows the HDMI signal though with the IR receiver unplugged you could try that, if the problem goes away it would support the idea that the receiver is picking up from noise the fridge.

The ferrites you've ordered are well worth a try but it can take some experimenting to get a result. Clamped to a cable they help block common-mode transients but may pass noise from differential currents. An inline mains filter mounted close to the fridge may help in that case. Always worth checking with the AM radio as @static zap suggested, if it's a noisy thermostat then replacing that could help.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
I think you're on the right track suspecting that IR extender, don't know how it transmits the remote signal down the HDMI alongside the regular digital data but it's plausible that noise from the fridge is being picked up from the receiver and corrupting the HDMI link.

If the extender allows the HDMI signal though with the IR receiver unplugged you could try that, if the problem goes away it would support the idea that the receiver is picking up from noise the fridge.

The ferrites you've ordered are well worth a try but it can take some experimenting to get a result. Clamped to a cable they help block common-mode transients but may pass noise from differential currents. An inline mains filter mounted close to the fridge may help in that case. Always worth checking with the AM radio as @static zap suggested, if it's a noisy thermostat then replacing that could help.
Yes with the IR receiver unplugged the interference goes away

Yes I will definitely give the radio test a go over the weekend.

What is the inline mains filter, where could I get one of those?
 
So my concern is, is the fridge causing this interference an issue- do I need to fix the actual cause of the issue, or is it quite "normal" for a fridge to do this?
Yes you do need to fix it. Creating interference is illegal.

Posible a capacitor across the fridge contacts along with an inline filter will fix it.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Yes you do need to fix it. Creating interference is illegal.

Posible a capacitor across the fridge contacts along with an inline filter will fix it.
Thank you,
Where can I get a Capacitor & inline filter, I've searched online but I'm not too sure what I'm looking for.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Should the fridge be causing this? Should I just get the fridge replaced? It's a brand new Husky beer fridge - the fact it's causing this does it mean it's faulty or normal?
 

MFS Electrical

-
Arms Access
Hi all,

My apologies in advance if this is posted in the wrong category, there were a few options it could've potentially fallen under.

We have just completed our garage to home cinema conversion, but having a small (major!) issue. In the Cinema we have all the usual tech you'd expect, a projector, Denon Receiver (amplifier), YouView Box, Firestick, etc etc.
We also have a mini-fridge. All this runs on a 20A Radial.

When the compressor on the fridge fires up, it sets the screen blank. Through process of elimination I've narrowed this down to being the receiver at fault, rather than the projector. When the compressor turns off, there's no interference.

I have been advised this could be one of two things, RF interference, or the current being drawn from the fridge is causing a voltage drop. This I think is unlikely because we're not talking about a big american sized fridge freezer, it's a mini-fridge pulling 65 watts at max load!

In a bid to fix either of these issues, I have ordered a UPS to run the tech from . But my question is, is it Normal for the fridge to be causing interference? i.e. Do I need to think about getting the fridge replaced? In hindsight it wouldn't have been difficult to run a separate circuit for the fridge when doing first fix, but it's a bit late for that now. We have always had our Kitchen sockets on the same ring as the lounge and never had an issue with the kitchen fridge interfering with the lounge TV, so the wiring setup in the cinema isn't anything out of the ordinary I don't think?

Would appreciate any advice and apologies for rambling on
My initial thoughts are volt drop was the radial designed by a competent spark? Maybe the run is a little too long for the size of cable and the compressor is pulling a little more load than it was designed to especially is the voltage is already on the low side....
could be RF never really known a fridge to cause a problem though? Have you checked the capacitor on the fridge maybe it’s failing and causing something unusual?
 
Thank you,
Where can I get a Capacitor & inline filter, I've searched online but I'm not too sure what I'm looking for.
If the problem goes away when you unplug the IR receiver it sounds like a susceptibility issue and not an emissions problem, the receiver is responding to noise events that it should ignore. It's a long shot but wrapping foil around the receiver may help, try it with no hole at first and if it stops the interference make a small hole to let the IR in. One or two of your ferrites on the receiver wire may also help.

A lot of the electronics on Amazon are questionable for CE/EMC certification and it wouldn't be a surprise if that remote extender wasn't up to scratch.

Otherwise a different IR extender may be the answer or possibly a boosted remote that can control the devices from the range you need without it.

For a quick try of mains filtering these things may help but I don't like them much. The filtering is fairly poor and they don't do a lot. Any fridge sold in the last 23 years will be designed for EMC and your new one should be fine without additional filters.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
My initial thoughts are volt drop was the radial designed by a competent spark? Maybe the run is a little too long for the size of cable and the compressor is pulling a little more load than it was designed to especially is the voltage is already on the low side....
could be RF never really known a fridge to cause a problem though? Have you checked the capacitor on the fridge maybe it’s failing and causing something unusual?
Yes it was done by an electrician who we've used for various things over the years, I don't know the ins and outs but I have a reasonable understanding as I had a nose around when he'd finished first fix. There was no power in the garage before, so a big cable comes from the main DB on a 32a mcb (just the other side of the wall in the hallway) to the new room into a small Chint consumer unit. So only about a 2 metre run. 20A Radial, 6a lighting circuit, 1 spare. 12 sockets on the radial, size of room is just a single garage size, done in 2.5mm T&E. No idea how accurate this is but I stuck my cheap multimeter into a socket and it's reading 238 volts, and I switched fridge off and on again, compressor kicked in and multimeter stayed at 238 volts throughout. Does all that seem Ok? As another test of the circuit I've also just plugged in a 3500 watt heater, It had no effect on the voltage or on any of my equipment so I'm fairly sure it's not an issue with the circuit itself, as the fridge is only rated 60 watts!
Also, how do I check the capacitor on the fridge? If I'm honest I don't really know what I'm looking for there :/
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
If the problem goes away when you unplug the IR receiver it sounds like a susceptibility issue and not an emissions problem, the receiver is responding to noise events that it should ignore. It's a long shot but wrapping foil around the receiver may help, try it with no hole at first and if it stops the interference make a small hole to let the IR in. One or two of your ferrites on the receiver wire may also help.

A lot of the electronics on Amazon are questionable for CE/EMC certification and it wouldn't be a surprise if that remote extender wasn't up to scratch.

Otherwise a different IR extender may be the answer or possibly a boosted remote that can control the devices from the range you need without it.

For a quick try of mains filtering these things may help but I don't like them much. The filtering is fairly poor and they don't do a lot. Any fridge sold in the last 23 years will be designed for EMC and your new one should be fine without additional filters.
Yes I'm thinking of going for this type:
Wireless IR Extender, 20-60kHz Support - from LINDY UK - https://www.lindy.co.uk/audio-video-c2/extenders-c181/wireless-ir-extender-20-60khz-support-p9123
which does not involve HDMI at all, rather it's own wireless signal to transmit the IR.

With those RF extension leads, just to confirm would that be for the fridge to plug into, or my AV equipment?
 
Yes it was done by an electrician who we've used for various things over the years, I don't know the ins and outs but I have a reasonable understanding as I had a nose around when he'd finished first fix. There was no power in the garage before, so a big cable comes from the main DB on a 32a mcb (just the other side of the wall in the hallway) to the new room into a small Chint consumer unit. So only about a 2 metre run. 20A Radial, 6a lighting circuit, 1 spare. 12 sockets on the radial, size of room is just a single garage size, done in 2.5mm T&E. No idea how accurate this is but I stuck my cheap multimeter into a socket and it's reading 238 volts, and I switched fridge off and on again, compressor kicked in and multimeter stayed at 238 volts throughout. Does all that seem Ok? As another test of the circuit I've also just plugged in a 3500 watt heater, It had no effect on the voltage or on any of my equipment so I'm fairly sure it's not an issue with the circuit itself, as the fridge is only rated 60 watts!
Also, how do I check the capacitor on the fridge? If I'm honest I don't really know what I'm looking for there :/
Your supply and the fridge sound fine, the IR extender looks like the problem so shielding/replacing that is the most likely solution.
If you want confirmation of susceptibility you could try another noise source, switching another inductive load on and off for example. If you have a piezo gas igniter they are a useful source of noise spikes for testing, treat them with care though, some produce amazingly big noise spikes that crash electronics that are otherwise fine.
 
Yes I'm thinking of going for this type:
Wireless IR Extender, 20-60kHz Support - from LINDY UK - https://www.lindy.co.uk/audio-video-c2/extenders-c181/wireless-ir-extender-20-60khz-support-p9123
which does not involve HDMI at all, rather it's own wireless signal to transmit the IR.

With those RF extension leads, just to confirm would that be for the fridge to plug into, or my AV equipment?
Getting the remote extender off the HDMI link sounds like a good move. If you used a mains extension with a filter you'd want it in the fridge supply but I wouldn't recommend it, the filters in extension cables are pretty small and rarely make much difference.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
I tried a desk fan, and it caused exactly the same issue, so that puts my mind at rest that it’s nothing wrong with the fridge

I’ve removed the IR extender and ordered the better one (or at least I hope it’s better!)

Thanks for all your help - I think , fingers crossed, it’s solved
 
When your refrigerator compressor turns on there is a huge inrush of current for a second or so while the motor engages. Afterwards it settles to a much lower value, but during the surge the voltage on the line can droop. Do you have other things on that circuit? I am surprised that a brief droop is enough to power off a regulated DC power supply. bakingreview.com
 

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