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Discuss Minimum socket heights - first floor! in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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ash2020

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Another minimum socket height question!

Material change of use - New flat in an old warehouse so I guess you could call it new build.

There's no way you'd get a wheelchair or anybody of limited mobility up to the first and second floors, so do the sockets still have to be min 450 and the switches max 1200? If so, the regs. are stupid!
Cheers
Andy
 
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AMST09

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  • #2
If its not a new build....what ever the old height is they can be the same height
 
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ash2020

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
If its not a new build....what ever the old height is they can be the same height
Surely if it is a material change of use, i.e. a dwelling where there wasn't one before it would have to meet the same requirements as a new build.
Andy.
 
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acat

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  • #4
I would say a change of use is new and consequently a new build for that property what happens if after you have been a lift or stair lift is installed.

Chris
 
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Spudnik

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  • #5
Indeed. Agree with the others.

New heights im afraid!
 
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ash2020

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  • #9
My reading is new heights, that's what I've done, but I do think it's ridiculous in a 1st floor flat where you could never install a lift or a stair lift because of the old building.

I personally think that, say if 18% of the population are disabled, then 18% of new properties should cater, not 100%. If you can't manage the heights of the sockets in a house, then don't buy it or rent it!

Too harsh?

Thanks all for the input.
Andy.
 
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dragon-av

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  • #11
I might be wrong but doesnt the new heights things only apply to general purposes sockets in a room likely to be used by guests? DEdicated sockets, and those in rooms unlikely to be used by a guest are not (if I'm right) included..... I think therefore its possible to have sockets and 300mm as long as they are dedicated use or in a room unlikely to be used by a guest. How else would sockets for TV's (behind the planned TV which i have seen loads of and hate) floor sockets in offices (again seen loads) and others be within regs. The regs are interpreted and as long as there is a good reason you should be fine (inspectors may not see it that way tho.......)
 
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Spudnik

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
I might be wrong but doesnt the new heights things only apply to general purposes sockets in a room likely to be used by guests? DEdicated sockets, and those in rooms unlikely to be used by a guest are not (if I'm right) included..... I think therefore its possible to have sockets and 300mm as long as they are dedicated use or in a room unlikely to be used by a guest. How else would sockets for TV's (behind the planned TV which i have seen loads of and hate) floor sockets in offices (again seen loads) and others be within regs. The regs are interpreted and as long as there is a good reason you should be fine (inspectors may not see it that way tho.......)
Who told you that??

At the end of the day, if its an existing building , then the switches and sockets etc can be the same height as they were before, as long as they are no worse eg sockets 300mm from FFL and then rewired with them installed into the skirting instead.

If its a new build, then everything must comply with Part L, M and all the others that are related to our trade.

Industrial and commercial however, is a slightly different ball game.
 
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baldsparkies

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  • #13
I have researched this one, ( have a thread on the forum about it,) If its existing old build being rewired you can keep the original socket heights provided they are not so low as to cause mechanical stress to flexes cables or plug tops. If an existing building has had major modification to the internal structure ie new walls built ect,then building control deem it new build and current regs come into force.

As an example if sockets in an existing build were at a height of 200mm and you wanted to move them to say 350mm thats ok because its an improvement on the original install.but if you wanted to move them down to say 150mm thats a no no,

Having done rewires on new build flats I can definately confirm that current regs have to be implemented, As Jason said commercial work is a different ball game.
 

scotsparky

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Arms
bald he could have a socket under his bath as long as access to it was with Key or tool as it would be then out of zone. It would have to be RCD protected though and i have no idea why he would want on there.
 
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baldsparkies

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  • #17
bald he could have a socket under his bath as long as access to it was with Key or tool as it would be then out of zone. It would have to be RCD protected though and i have no idea why he would want on there.
True enough, but like you said why? possibly a shower pump, or hot tub supply, I would look for better locations if possible.
Anyway, we are going off subject slapped wrists:)
 
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dragon-av

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  • #18
Who told you that??
The Regs book.....There are huge flaws in the actual regulations and the interpritation of them its a brave man who doesn't go sheep like and follow the crowd, A lecturer of mine once proved that having "live" connection fused plugs as we do in the UK is potentially more dangerous than the unfused Euro plug 2 pin plug..... Yet we still ahve 3 pin fused live plugs!
 
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Mac

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
The Regs book.....There are huge flaws in the actual regulations and the interpritation of them its a brave man who doesn't go sheep like and follow the crowd, A lecturer of mine once proved that having "live" connection fused plugs as we do in the UK is potentially more dangerous than the unfused Euro plug 2 pin plug..... Yet we still ahve 3 pin fused live plugs!
I agree with you mate.A lot of the countries in europe use the 2 pin plug and the IT earthing system,why can't they use it here.Too health and safety conscience,and it's and easy way to print money with all the update courses:confused:Sorry should have read the beginning of the thread,it seems to be straying a bit of the main track
 
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scotsparky

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Arms
If we didnt have fused plugs we couldnt use rings as its the fuse in the plug that allows us to derate from 32A to 13a if it wasnt there thenits 4mm flexes for us or the 2.5 radials and 20A MCBs with 2.5 flexes.
 
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kung

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  • #22
Sparks 1234, he pays his money he gets his choice.
So if he was drunk 99% of the time and spent the 99% of his time on the floor and wanted the sockets 30mm from ffl thats ok ! Cool that will save cable !
 
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dragon-av

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  • #23
Is there a Reg in particular?
Like always its stupidly vague and hinges on definitions http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADM_2004.pdf 8.3 as you can see they have suggested a means of satisfying M1 so everyone assumes thats teh only way, it isnt... As long as you satisfy M1 you're fine.

Just because someone wrote a book doesn't mean thats how you ahve to do it.... It may not be practical to do it all from first principles but then again the regulations are always very vague.

Basic Electrical Installation Work - Google Book Search

It all hinges on the definition of a "habbitable room"
 
J

j_mccl

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
As far as i understand, on an existing installation you do not have to improve the accessibility of the socket outlets and switches however you are not allowed to make them worse.
If the new work being carried out requires building regulations then i believe that all socket outlets and switches will have to be installed between 450 and 1200mm with the exeption of the kitchen as this will be on the plans submitted to building control.
 

EddieB

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Arms
MarkSpark666
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MarkSpark666 lets not be daft here the original query was on socket heights and if the paying customer says he wants them at a a specific height he can have them at that height. Where does the location of the sockets come into it? and would you honestly expect a spark to install a socket in your suggested location, come on now! :mad:

MarkSpark 666 lets not be daft here the original thread is on heights not locations
 
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