Mitsubishi alpha vs Allen Bradley micrologix

[stef]

Afternoon chaps,

i have a couple of projects coming up and it would make sense to opt for PLCs. I have used AB before but looking through the catalogues there is a significant price difference in comparison to Mitsubishi. I haven't used Mitsubishi so far, working myself through the programming software is probably not too difficult. Anyone knows about the hardware, mainly reliability?
possibility to expand the number of I/O points, ease of uploading the ladder logic?
The projects involve relay logic, timers and counters only, nothing special really.

Thanks for any comments.

 

[telectrix]

darkwood's probably your best bet with plc's.

 

[Knobhead]

Used lots of Mitsubishi, never had a problem.

Non of the companies I’ve worked for favoured AB. So can’t really give a comparison.

 

[silva.foxx]

A-B costs a lot for software along with activation ball-ache and comms with RSLinx! Similar scenario with Siemens but I'm accustomed to the charms of Simatic Manager.

Mitsubishi are more favourable in my opinion. Mitsi Alpha appears quite user friendly though I've not done owt with it. Have with GX developer. Spent two years at night school with RSLogix500 and spent a number of years working with US kit.

Good reliability with both so you'll have to decide based on suitability for application, local support and hardware availability.

 

[stef]

Yes, I have to admit the AB comms is awkward, however the Micrologix software of RSLogix is free to download. Our main supplier is RS, they stock both. The Mitsubishi software is only a few hundred quid and the hardware is much cheaper.

thanks guys.

 

[WaterSparky]

Are you interested in considering other manufacturer? The company I work for solely uses Schneider PLCs, I personally find these quite easy depending on type to programme.

 

[stef]

Are you interested in considering other manufacturer? The company I work for solely uses Schneider PLCs, I personally find these quite easy depending on type to programme.

Certainly worth looking into it. Thanks, watersparky

 

[Spoon]

There are loads of different makes of PLC's. We mainly use B&R.

 

[silva.foxx]

... the Micrologix software of RSLogix is free to download.

Is the free RSL500 available to the MLX1000, or is the 1100 inclusive?

 

[joel89]

we use Allen Bradley i like them, nice and simple to work with Mircologix 1200 and 500 series.. never used mitsubushi

 

[joel89]

rslogix is £1400, for the full version with license ive just had to buy a new copy of it as we've lost ours

 

[stef]

Hi silva.vox

the free version can do the 1000 1100 and 1200, not sure about the the other micrologix.

 

[stef]

rslogix is £1400, for the full version with license ive just had to buy a new copy of it as we've lost ours

That is a bit steep for a piece of software. sama:
So, if you lose the licence key you have to buy a new software package? Bit of a rip off IMHO.

 

[stef]

There are loads of different makes of PLC's. We mainly use B&R.

How much is the software? I have never heard of it, easy to understand and program?

 

[Knobhead]

Stef, what is it you’re wanting to do? It would help if we knew, as it is we’re just blundering around in the dark.

Software is a bugbear when it comes to the overall cost. I priced up a job for the foundry, I wanted to use Mitsubishi.
The management insisted I used Modicon “because all the lads understand Modsoft.” It was a bit of a pity really because the new Modicon range used PL7.
Mitsubishi software <£100, PL7 >£700.

 

[stef]

Stef, what is it you’re wanting to do? It would help if we knew, as it is we’re just blundering around in the dark.

Software is a bugbear when it comes to the overall cost. I priced up a job for the foundry, I wanted to use Mitsubishi.
The management insisted I used Modicon “because all the lads understand Modsoft.” It was a bit of a pity really because the new Modicon range used PL7.
Mitsubishi software <£100, PL7 >£700.

Morning Tony,

it is just simple ladder logic, controlling conveyors for wash plants and test stands. The cabinets are full of ancient relays and timers (those pneumatic ABB types, obsolete for decades) leaving no room for expansion.
The plan is replacing them with PLCs. There is a big re-structure of the machine shop going on, with the PLCs we intend to increase reliability and also the possibility of easy expansion and integration with other machines. We are currently in the planning stage and ideally we should agree to one type of PLC. You might be surprised, but the management is leaving the decision to us :waving: But it has to be purchased from RS (because of the next day delivery I suppose)
In fact, when it comes to technology they are very approachable (cos they haven't got a clue) so I want to make it as cost effective as possible, it has to be easy and reliable. That is why I started this post, get different views and opinions.

Hope this helps.

 

[Knobhead]

One reason I liked the Modicon TSX micro is they have 5A relay units. I was having to switch furnace contactors in and out frequently. The contactors are made by Telemecanique to switch high voltage capacitive loads so no chance of changing them. To add to the fun the PLC controlled the LV and HV breakers. I had 110V AC and 30V/130V DC all switched by the same unit.
You can have up to 64 5A relays so it made my life easier when dealing with older gear. You’re not limited to 64 O/P it’s just the maximum of relay units 4 x 16 way that can be used.
http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Automation%20Products/Programmable%20Logic%20Controllers-PLCs/MKTED204012EN.pdf

Programming for ladder is reasonably simple, one thing I found very useful was the ability to use drum controllers. I used them for the shut down and earthing sequence also the maximum demand control.
The earthing procedure had my sphincter twitching the first time I tried it. The incoming 660V 2.6MW single phase busbars were shorted to earth and then each capacitor bank switched to earth. Once proved it became an automatic feature.
The maximum demand control was fun. Linked in to the works trend system so that if we were getting near our MD limit the furnaces would power down from around 1.5MW to just 55KW. At the end of the restriction they powered back up again, adding compensation for heat loss. All done in ladder.

If it’s an on going project the software cost is spread out over several units so really doesn’t enter in to it.

 

[Darkwood]

I don't have great experience across the ranges i tend to settle for Siemens Logo or Schneiders Zelio soft2 although i have had a lot of problems uploading and downloading the logo in the past and it comes down to that its written under the windows pro package and as most computers and laptops are shipped out with a chopped down version of this it can cause allsorts of issues when using a USB lead to link your PLC to your computer...

Im currently getting to grasps with Crouzet logic soft M2 but overall if your wanting to create such a simple program then id be inclined to opt for a PLC with free software and a good priced PLC that way you can upload and practice on the software before you choose.. or simply stick to what you already know.

From experience with cost, ease of use and logic functions I edge to Zelio as i find the Boolean function block a God send to design your own logic Gate but i dare say this is a common function to many ranges out their but from experience not all.

 

[Robotstar5]

If you're going to be fitting a number of machines with PLC's consider types with the option of communicating with others or a master PC, Modbus, Devicenet, Ethernet, etc.

 

[Knobhead]

Only really used ModBus and the old Modicon PeerCop system. Some of the main Modicon 984’s were a nightmare using both systems. Trying to keep track of what went where became a game.

To add to the fun 984’s and TSX/Magelis use reversed bit patterns. Bit 0 on TSX is bit 16 on 984’s, even the bit numbering was different. TSX 0→15, 984 16→1, they’re both Modicon!

The first time we linked a 984 to a TSX I was working with a French engineer, there were some glorious **** ups. Neither of us knew about the bit patterns, add the language difference and things went a bit haywire. It was funny though.