Most obvious fault here

[littlespark]

First of all, sorry I didn’t take more photos.
Been to a customer to price a job and had a look at his CU. Split RCD half and half.

From this picture, it appears the left hand side rcd is off, although all the circuits are powered.



so. First thought, faulty rcd. Says it’s off but contacts must still be closed.

Further investigation. Turned all breakers off, reset rcd and it held. Tripped on test button.
Reset right hand rcd.... also held.
Turned on circuit 1, which is marked as sockets, (first one off right hand, not in picture) trips LEFT hand rcd.

Without detailing any more, it appears the left hand side bank of breakers are being supplied through the right hand side rcd. Possibly because they’ve mixed up the rfc legs. All the load on the left hand side running through one 2.5mm cable. I think I’ll clamp it out of interest.
Would this happen with just lives mixed, just neutrals, or both?

I’ll update early next week. With more photos

 

[telectrix]

"do not megger alarms". a niceic approved sticker. can't they get terminology correct? and it's pi$$ed.

 

[littlespark]

"do not megger alarms". a niceic approved sticker. can't they get terminology correct? and it's pi$$ed.

It’s not the the only thing that’s squint. You should see the dno cutout and fuse. Mounted at 45degree

 

[DefyG]

"do not megger alarms". a niceic approved sticker. can't they get terminology correct? and it's pi$$ed.

Looks more like an AICO sticker (maybe NIC approved) but def an Aico sticker that is included in the detector box.
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Would this happen with just lives mixed, just neutrals, or both?

Please post your findings, I'm sure we would all like to know the outcome!

 

[westward10]

"do not megger alarms". a niceic approved sticker. can't they get terminology correct? and it's pi$$ed.

Maybe it is okay with other brands, I don't use Megger.

 

[Wing_na_Prayer]

I would check the neutrals first, especially the rcd neutrals are on the correct neutral bars. Came across something similar a couple of years ago. You could also check the legs of any ring mains are not crossed over.
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When it says do not megger alarms, it's not talking about the brand of tester. It's telling you not do a Insulation Resistance Test on the alarm circuit as it is vulnerable to the test voltage.

 

[westward10]

I would check the neutrals first, especially the rcd neutrals are on the correct neutral bars. Came across something similar a couple of years ago. You could also check the legs of any ring mains are not crossed over.
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When it says do not megger alarms, it's not talking about the brand of tester. It's telling you not do a Insulation Resistance Test on the alarm circuit as it is vulnerable to the test voltage.

Welcome to the forum. We know I was being sarcastic, for a manufacturer to state "do not megger" is pretty poor terminology.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I love to be a fly on the wall watching little sparks open the lid, and see what he finds.
I bet it been rcd by passed.

 

[snowhead]

The implication of the label is that it is not O.k use an insulation tester manufactured by Megger, but by default it would be acceptable to use any other make tester to carry out an Insulation test.

As Westwood, it's wrong for any manufacturer to use that term.

 

[telectrix]

"megger it" conjures up memories of cranking a handle and seeing how high an apprentice can jump.

 

[littlespark]

Do not “megger” alarms, hear you loud and clear through the “klaxon” and remember to clean up afterwards with the “hoover”

 

[Wing_na_Prayer]

Welcome to the forum. We know I was being sarcastic, for a manufacturer to state "do not megger" is pretty poor terminology.

okay, looks like I'll have to get used to P taking! Think I'll enjoy this. hahaha

 

[Andy78]

Do not “megger” alarms, hear you loud and clear through the “klaxon” and remember to clean up afterwards with the “hoover”

After you've parked up outside on the "tarmac" make sure to take notes with your "biro" about what you find inside. Hopefully it's not a handful of discarded "fibreglass" insulation or "bubble wrap". Take care not to break those flimsy Hager lids or you might have to fix it with "super glue" "sellotape" or "velcro"

 

[richy3333]

"do not megger alarms". a niceic approved sticker. can't they get terminology correct? and it's pi$$ed.

Why do you think NICEIC approved this? It's Aicos own sticker?

I've mentioned it to Aico a couple of times that there is no such test as 'meggering'. I dont think they can spell insulation

 

[nicebutdim]

After you've parked up outside on the "tarmac" make sure to take notes with your "biro" about what you find inside. Hopefully it's not a handful of discarded "fibreglass" insulation or "bubble wrap"....

Never knew that "fibreglass" was a brand name - some more new information for today

It does seem pretty unprofessional for a company like Aico to use a brand name in place of the correct term. Maybe they hope to start a trend and this is a subtle way of encouraging electricians to reference "Aicos" in place of "smoke detectors" ?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I think one person briefly attempted an explanation about littlesparks post, every other post has been about a sticker!

 

[littlespark]

Turns out there is a connection between the 2 rfc's. One on each RCD.
The left hand side one is a pair... identical end to end readings on L and N
The right hand side however is not an rfc at all. Theres 3 legs here that are not connected to each other.. so not an rfc. One is an outside socket thats been added. Can trace that cable visually.
Another leg has a connection to the rfc on the left hand side. (i need to find this. could behind a socket, or in a jb)
The last leg has no connection to anything else. This could be a single spur, or it could be a radial with several points on it.

I'm going back with a few 16A breakers to try and split it down a little.

 

[Grant1987]

Never knew that "fibreglass" was a brand name - some more new information for today

It does seem pretty unprofessional for a company like Aico to use a brand name in place of the correct term. Maybe they hope to start a trend and this is a subtle way of encouraging electricians to reference "Aicos" in place of "smoke detectors" ?

Aicos are the way forward every year I do an expert installer course with Aico which I’m sure most of you do. This is another topic which sparkys on here will disagree with me because smoke alarms don’t constitute an unsatisfactory report in an EICR because they are not “relevant” in our reports but I disagree if I see a battery only smoke alarm (fire angel) I get my hammer out and smash it off the ceiling. Every property should have a mains wired optical smoke alarm (hallway, landing) heat alarm kitchen interlinked with 10 year lithium back up battery. All my Scottish and Irish friends should know this as their laws are more robust compared to us welsh and English although we will soon be following you

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Turns out there is a connection between the 2 rfc's. One on each RCD.
The left hand side one is a pair... identical end to end readings on L and N
The right hand side however is not an rfc at all. Theres 3 legs here that are not connected to each other.. so not an rfc. One is an outside socket thats been added. Can trace that cable visually.
Another leg has a connection to the rfc on the left hand side. (i need to find this. could behind a socket, or in a jb)
The last leg has no connection to anything else. This could be a single spur, or it could be a radial with several points on it.

I'm going back with a few 16A breakers to try and split it down a little.

A 3 legged ring. Apart from the difficulties in testing it, what danger might there be in putting all 3 legs on the same 32A breaker?
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This is another topic which sparkys on here will disagree with me because smoke alarms don’t constitute an unsatisfactory report in an EICR because they are not “relevant” in our reports but I disagree if I see a battery only smoke alarm (fire angel) I get my hammer out and smash it off the ceiling. Every property should have a mains wired optical smoke alarm (hallway, landing) heat alarm kitchen interlinked with 10 year lithium back up battery.

Which code do you give for a battery only smoke alarm a) before and b) after you've knocked it off the ceiling with your Coventry screwdriver? And which regulation do you reference to justify said coding and remedial action?