Moving a light switch - is an rcd needed?

[Ft2300]

Hi, we've bought a house which has the light switches in the reception rooms behind the door - we don't want to rehang the doors to open the other way as the rooms are small and it obstructs furniture.

I've had a few quotes of £100-£200 to move the lights switch to a different wall but one electrician said if the house doesn't have an RCD then it will be more/ not as simple. The house is a 1920s semi and doesn't have an RCD so I've repeated this back to other contractors who have said it's not needed.

I'm not sure what to think and know nothing about electrics - they were saying something about chasing the cables but i don't know what this is. Can anyone help?

Thanks

 

[MJPD29]

If the cable is buried less than 50mm deep in wall without earthed mechanical protection, yes.

 

[loz2754]

Any new work on a lighting circuit which involves altering the wiring has to have RCD protection.

 

[loz2754]

Another option would be to use quinetic wireless switches, though not necessarily a cheaper option.

 

[telectrix]

Another option would be to use quinetic wireless switches, though not necessarily a cheaper option.

won't be all that bad if you knock off the cost of chasing, plastering, and re-decoration.

 

[Mikegh]

Could be problematic then when you fit the RCBO at the board

Faults and borrowed neutrals

 

[brianmoooore]

The possibility of finding out that your wiring is in an unsatisfactory/dangerous condition is hardly a valid reason for not fitting an RCD

 

[littlespark]

Are you absolutely sure it doesn't have an rcd? Just because the house is 1920's doesn't mean the wiring is... (It won't be!)

Can we have a photo of the consumer unit showing the circuit breakers. It might be an easy job to add an RCD or RCBO.

There are other smart type switches that could be used instead of Quinetic.


I had to do this myself in a previous house i'd owned where the living room door had been hung the other way. Switch behind the door. But i managed to push a new cable down the conduit buried in the wall that fed the hallway switch, which was back to back with the new switch position.
Really lucky as the piece of wallpaper i cut out to fit the new switch, matched perfectly to patch where the old switch was.



As far as regulations go, FYI, from page 59 of the BBB electricians Bible (big blue book, BS7671 Wiring Regulations, 18th edition)

411.3.4 Additional requirements for circuits with luminaires

Within domestic (household) premises, additional protection by an RCD with a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30mA shall be provided for AC final circuits supplying luminaires

 

[Ft2300]

Are you absolutely sure it doesn't have an rcd? Just because the house is 1920's doesn't mean the wiring is... (It won't be!)

Can we have a photo of the consumer unit showing the circuit breakers. It might be an easy job to add an RCD or RCBO.

There are other smart type switches that could be used instead of Quinetic.


I had to do this myself in a previous house i'd owned where the living room door had been hung the other way. Switch behind the door. But i managed to push a new cable down the conduit buried in the wall that fed the hallway switch, which was back to back with the new switch position.
Really lucky as the piece of wallpaper i cut out to fit the new switch, matched perfectly to patch where the old switch was.



As far as regulations go, FYI, from page 59 of the BBB electricians Bible (big blue book, BS7671 Wiring Regulations, 18th edition)

411.3.4 Additional requirements for circuits with luminaires

Within domestic (household) premises, additional protection by an RCD with a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30mA shall be provided for AC final circuits supplying luminaires

Hiya, here is a photo of the consumer unit - to my knowledge there's no rcd. Sorry for the angle - will get a better one in the morning.

 

[littlespark]

Nope... no RCD.

Museum piece, not quite 1920's.

90's circuit breakers retrofitted into a 70's board. (someone will correct my dates if im wrong)

 

[Ft2300]

The possibility of finding out that your wiring is in an unsatisfactory/dangerous condition is hardly a valid reason for not fitting an RCD

Hi, thanks - I'm open to putting one in if needed, just want to actually understand if it's needed for the moving the light switches or not (something we could save up to do in the future). Can anyone give a ballpark of how much it would cost to put in an RCD? thanks

 

[Ft2300]

Nope... no RCD.

Museum piece, not quite 1920's.

90's circuit breakers retrofitted into a 70's board. (someone will correct my dates if im wrong)

Thanks for confirming - would be helpful to know if i should be worried about this (on the house we've just bought!!) - is it something that needs to be replaced/ upgraded asap? Many thanks

 

[littlespark]

Doesn't need to be upgraded as it is, but obviously any new works, including alterations to an existing circuit such as moving a switch, would have to be done to the current edition of the regulations... which would mean adding an RCD to it somehow.

It might be an idea to have an EICR done on the property. That way, any faults that are or may become dangerous will be found.

 

[brianmoooore]

Shower on a 16? Immersion heater on a 32? Two electric showers (both without RCD, unless at shower end)?
I would make getting a EICR on your house a priority.

 

[littlespark]

The "shower on a 16" looks to have been repurposed as underfloor heating... which looks to be passing through the RCD spur in the bottom right of picture.

and the 32A for immersion is turned off. Still needs investigated though.

Installations of this age will have had some alterations no doubt over the years. I cant see there being enough sockets in each room, if still original.

 

[Ft2300]

Shower on a 16? Immersion heater on a 32? Two electric showers (both without RCD, unless at shower end)?
I would make getting a EICR on your house a priority.

Sorry, I'm not sure what these numbers etc mean. Does this mean i need to pull out the showers/ bathrooms and rewire?!?

So am i right to think that in order to move the switch, and as a general priority it is:

1st - get an eirc
2nd - replace/ put in the rcd
3rd - then can move the light switch

If anyone could provide ballpark figures for the 1st and 2nd that would be really helpful, thank you.

 

[littlespark]

Sorry, I'm not sure what these numbers etc mean. Does this mean i need to pull out the showers/ bathrooms and rewire?!?

Don't worry about that. As i say, i think a shower circuit has been used to supply underfloor heating, and as such, the 16A breaker will be fine.

So am i right to think that in order to move the switch, and as a general priority it is:

1st - get an eirc
2nd - replace/ put in the rcd
3rd - then can move the light switch

If anyone could provide ballpark figures for the 1st and 2nd that would be really helpful, thank you.

An EICR would be a few hundred £ depending on the size of the property. Its an Electrical Installation Condition Report, and it will categorize each circuit into either a C1 (immediate danger) C2 (potentially dangerous) or C3 (improvement recommended). Otherwise, its brand new, and there's no issue.
There's also FI. (further investigation) which is where there is an issue, but to properly code it would involve extra time and money.

To change the entire consumer unit to all RCBO (which is a circuit breaker and RCD combined for each circuit) would be high hundreds of £'s, but the job of changing the CU would include a "mini" EICR to make sure there was no underlying faults before proceeding which may not allow the RCD's to operate properly.
There would also be an SPD (surge protection device) incorporated into the CU to protect costly electronic devices from voltage spikes. These can actually vary in price depending on likelyhood of lightning strikes, or whether you have an overhead cable supplying the property. This is something that you, as the customer, can opt out of having.

 

[brianmoooore]

Don't make the all to common mistake of spending thousands on new kitchens, bathrooms, flooring and general decor - the things that people tend to do when moving into a new property, before having the electrics evaluated. The fusebox and the wiring that we can see are all pretty ancient, and either the property will have very minimalistic electrics by modern standards, or loads of alterations and additions, which may or may not be done to an adequate standard.
You don't want to be rewiring and pulling up newly installed flooring or damaging newly decorated walls.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Hi Ft2300
To put your original enquiry into perspective -
Assuming the light switch you want to move is single gang, the cost of a Quinetic receiver switch (to put in place of the existing, as originally suggested in this thread), and a wireless switch to operate it (to put on the other side of the door, no wiring required) is approx £68 inc vat and shipping. No running of cables, just a like for like replacement of the existing switch with a Quinetic one. If you have multiple switches, still possible, but proportionally more expensive.

(This would mean you have switches on both sides of the door. If this is aesthetically unacceptable, please ignore this)

If you know someone competent to swap a light switch, or are competent to do it yourself, this is a route to do what you originally ask, without invoking the doom fairy.
In my humble opinion, doing this (properly) will not make your installation any less safe than it is already. It does not require RCD's. It does not require channeling the plaster and re-instating the decor. It does not require a registered electrician, as manufacturers of such accessories sell their products to the general public with instructions specifically written with the end user in mind.

I'm sure you appreciate, and will take heed of, all the good advice that has been prompted by your posting, but if unable to implement this immediately, I'm just suggesting this technology as a possible solution, and I've found it useful ?

PS I have absolutely no commercial or personal interest in this product, just use it at home!

 

[MJPD29]

If you are moving a light switch and altering the circuit, an RCD is almost certainly required. Its not something something can be done in the future, it's something that has to be done when the lighting circuit is being altered. It's as simple as that.