My 1st board on site advice

[DPG]

Didn't realise the reg was as specific as that I must admit.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

For me, if I were inspecting an existing installation.
It would be:
1) no comment, correctly identified PEN conductor,
2) code C3, incorrectly identified protective conductor, or
3) code C2, PEN conductor used in a consumer’s installation fed from a public supply.

If it were an Initial Verification, it would be: Fix that.

 

[Bobster]

I have never, an I'm not going to start now. Classed a ferrule as a cable marking.

Opening that up leads to all sorts of pedantic situations.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I have never, an I'm not going to start now. Classed a ferrule as a cable marking.

Opening that up leads to all sorts of pedantic situations.

Complying with the Regulations is obviously a matter of choice.
If you sign the declaration on an EIC or MEIWC that you have designed, constructed and inspected in accordance with BS7671, you could be found guilty of an offence of fraud.

 

[davesparks]

Ferrules come in a variety of colours, blue, red, black, white, yellow, orange, grey, green.
That’s just the colours I’ve got.
Not using a blue on earth conductors, or stripping off the blue insulation, is not difficult.
I guess it all depends on whether you want to adhere to the Regulations or not?

Yes and the colour denotes the size of the ferrule. You can't match the colour of the ferrule to the function of the conductor.

Anyone looking at it will be able to see that the colour ring is the ferrule and has not been fitted to indentify the function of the conductor.

 

[Risteard]

514.4.3 PEN conductor A PEN conductor shall, when insulated, be marked by one of the following methods:
(i) Green-and-yellow throughout its length with, in addition, blue markings at the terminations
(ii) Blue throughout its length, with green-and-yellow markings at the terminations.

There is no percentage requirement.

I'm certain that there is, or at least used to be. Won't have access to my BS7671 until the weekend though.

Have you looked at the Reg pertaining to identifying conductors by overmarking as opposed to the colour requirements for PEN conductors?

 

[davesparks]

For me, if I were inspecting an existing installation.
It would be:
1) no comment, correctly identified PEN conductor,
2) code C3, incorrectly identified protective conductor, or
3) code C2, PEN conductor used in a consumer’s installation fed from a public supply.

If it were an Initial Verification, it would be: Fix that.

Do you code every earth fly lead fitted with a blue ring crimp the same way?

Would you code the cpc of circuit number 6 the same way if coloured cable markers have been used?

 

[davesparks]

For me, if I were inspecting an existing installation.
It would be:
1) no comment, correctly identified PEN conductor,
2) code C3, incorrectly identified protective conductor, or
3) code C2, PEN conductor used in a consumer’s installation fed from a public supply.

If it were an Initial Verification, it would be: Fix that.

Do you code every earth fly lead fitted with a blue ring crimp the same way?

Would you code the cpc of circuit number 6 the same way if coloured cable markers have been used?

 

[Risteard]

514.4.3 PEN conductor A PEN conductor shall, when insulated, be marked by one of the following methods:
(i) Green-and-yellow throughout its length with, in addition, blue markings at the terminations
(ii) Blue throughout its length, with green-and-yellow markings at the terminations.

There is no percentage requirement.

I'm certain that there is, or at least used to be. Won't have access to my BS7671 until the weekend though.

Have you looked at the Reg pertaining to overmarking conductors as opposed to the colour requirements for PEN conductors?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yes and the colour denotes the size of the ferrule. You can't match the colour of the ferrule to the function of the conductor.

Anyone looking at it will be able to see that the colour ring is the ferrule and has not been fitted to indentify the function of the conductor.

The 3 loose ferrules on the right, are all blue.

 

[davesparks]

View attachment 48660
The 3 loose ferrules on the right, are all blue.

OK, so you've got a bag of French 1mm, German 1mm, German 1.5mm and a few randoms I can't quite identify. What's your point here?

The two main colour codes for ferrules are here:

 

[FatAlan]

Are there any UK made ferrules? Come the revolution I think we should have our own colours.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Here’s the thing:
I am neither French or German, and I’m not working in either of those countries.
I’m English and I work in the UK, to UK Regulations.
I have been known to work abroad and to the Regulations that pertain to that country.
Then again I’ve worked abroad and used UK Regulations.
Only places I know of in the UK, which use non-UK Regulations are American Air Bases and quarters.

At the end of the day, you have a choice.
Comply with the Regs, or don’t comply with them.
You can easily remove the coloured ‘insulation’ from the ferrule, either before or after crimping.
So if you don’t remove it, you’ve chosen not to comply.

 

[davesparks]

Here’s the thing:
I am neither French or German, and I’m not working in either of those countries.
I’m English and I work in the UK, to UK Regulations.
I have been known to work abroad and to the Regulations that pertain to that country.
Then again I’ve worked abroad and used UK Regulations.
Only places I know of in the UK, which use non-UK Regulations are American Air Bases and quarters.

At the end of the day, you have a choice.
Comply with the Regs, or don’t comply with them.
You can easily remove the coloured ‘insulation’ from the ferrule, either before or after crimping.
So if you don’t remove it, you’ve chosen not to comply.

If you cut the plastic bit off then you are modifying a product and using it in a manner other than in accordance with manufacturers instructions. So if you remove it you don't comply with regulations, to the same degree of ridiculous pettiness as thinking a ferrule is a cable marker in the first place.

Perhaps you could answer the question about whether you would code the use of standard red, blue and yellow crimps as a non-compliance?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If you cut the plastic bit off then you are modifying a product and using it in a manner other than in accordance with manufacturers instructions. So if you remove it you don't comply with regulations, to the same degree of ridiculous pettiness as thinking a ferrule is a cable marker in the first place.

Perhaps you could answer the question about whether you would code the use of standard red, blue and yellow crimps as a non-compliance?

Yes I would.
Again you can remove the insulation.
If you think, removing the insulation would fall foul of the Regulations, then don’t use insulated crimps and ferrules.

Again it’s all down to choice.
You choose to use a non-compliant product, no one is standing behind you holding a gun to your head.

Of course, you could use some heat shrink to cover the blue.

 

[FatAlan]

Someone needs to make a range of ferrules with clear plastic to reflect the conductor colour and come up with a ferrule size system that’s not based on colour.

 

[Bobster]

Here’s the thing:
I am neither French or German, and I’m not working in either of those countries.
I’m English and I work in the UK, to UK Regulations.
I have been known to work abroad and to the Regulations that pertain to that country.
Then again I’ve worked abroad and used UK Regulations.
Only places I know of in the UK, which use non-UK Regulations are American Air Bases and quarters.

At the end of the day, you have a choice.
Comply with the Regs, or don’t comply with them.
You can easily remove the coloured ‘insulation’ from the ferrule, either before or after crimping.
So if you don’t remove it, you’ve chosen not to comply.

Being the french or german colour scheme is just something that has become standard world wide as they were the ones who began mass producing them.

Absolutely nothing to do with working to their regulations.

By removing it, you've breaking other regs of not following manufacturers instructions.

On a side note, you can buy them without the plastic collar for anyone wondering.

I'll email a couple of the guys that I know in the IET/BSI Technical Committee, I'll come back with a response. They could use a laugh.

If I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up to it.

 

[FatAlan]

Can you point me in the direction of those without plastic collars?

 

[westward10]

This has got to be a wind up, what a random thing to say.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Being the french or german colour scheme is just something that has become standard world wide as they were the ones who began mass producing them.

Absolutely nothing to do with working to their regulations.

By removing it, you've breaking other regs of not following manufacturers instructions.

On a side note, you can buy them without the plastic collar for anyone wondering.

I'll email a couple of the guys that I know in the IET/BSI Technical Committee, I'll come back with a response. They could use a laugh.

If I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up to it.

Whilst your Emailing them about that, could you ask them whether BS 7288 sockets and FCUs being used for additional protection?