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Im an electrical apprentise just about out of my time been working for 2 years now mainly as a mainternance engineer, but do lots of installs and panel building etc. Here is my latest Panel if any of you wonder how plywood cable drums are made (Well the Larger ones) this is how it is done. This is a new hydraulic press which operates at 200 Bar. The panel operates the pneamatic control to take the drum in to the press and eject it once pressed, the hydraulic enerpac aswell as a full automatic mode. There are a number of conditions for press to work including light guards and pressure switches so the drum is perfectly pressed. I designed and built the control circuit. Here are some pictures. Unfortunatly none of the completed panel as i forgot and it has already been installed in another factory.

My Panel {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net

My Panel {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net
This picture if of the press under going trials it was then stripped and transported to another factory where we installed it.
My Panel {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net

Ash
 
Aye, not bad yungun. There's a thread in general for this sort of thing though, Show Us Your Installs" It would have got more notice taken of it there mate.
:)
 
I see that your company don't use panel wiring trunking (slotted/finger) in there panels!! Which is a shame, It makes internal panel wiring so much neater, and gives a professional finish to the job....
 
I see that your company don't use panel wiring trunking (slotted/finger) in there panels!! Which is a shame, It makes internal panel wiring so much neater, and gives a professional finish to the job....

my thoughts too,thats not a lash up to see if it works,that could be the finished product,no room for trunk as the top hat leaves no room for it unless you remove it and cut,poor looming,no protection over door,perm marker for cut outs,its a mess if it is the finished product,which i presume its not..
 
No cable numbers or terminal points marked,which shows you've been taught badly as you should design everything out on paper first so you know what cable goes where,get your scheme correct etc rather than just connecting it all up as you go along.
Thats fine for you while your wiring it but no use for the guy coming behind you where theres nothing to work from after say an electrical fire or impact damage from a forklift.
Your obviously not stupid as there's a fair bit of control in there but without numbers and labelling I'd refuse to work on it.
Wheres the diagram you worked from?surely you numbered that?
 
Unfortunatly none of the completed panel as i forgot and it has already been installed in another factory.


Ash

Appologise to the O.P, any replies to this thread are meant to be constructive critisim, not just a general slagging off.

I asume the wiring got tidied up.

Agree with all the above comments.
I work on a lot of control panels, never seen one wired like this before.
It's so much easier to build with cable trunking and easier to fault find following cables without a drawing after.

Marker pen needs cleaning off after the holes are punched.

If you build more than 1 of these you need a jig to form the wiring and loom to length before it's fitted to the contactors and terminals.

Assume that's a PLC in the corner, no vents in the box then?
 
good for you showing this. Well done on the panel having done this type of work myself for what seems like a lifetime now please dont take the above points as you being got at they are all valid. Every day is a school day in the electrical field.
 
Well done for showing us what you built. Can't really add much to what the other guys have said. Definitely needs trunking to give it that professional look.
Also, you are an "apprentice", not an "apprentise", and it's "maintenance", not "mainternance". Don't mean to be picky, but people you work with will think it very unprofessional if you misspell your own job title.
 
Thanks for showing the panel/machine build, I hope you take the above as constructive criticism, it will make future builds look a lot more professional which should lead to repeat/more orders for your company.

Hopefully the pics were taken before you fitted the earth bonding between the chassis plate, enclosure & lid etc. also, I prefer to drive a safety relay with the OSSD outputs from the lightguards and another on the E/stop circuit as it allows you to monitor residual pneumatic/hydraulic pressure before allowing a restart. Did you fit a satellite E/stop on the side of the machine opposite to the panel?.

PILZ do some good training seminars which would help you with the safety aspect of machine design.
 
The permanent marker was removed, door, back plate and enclosure where all bonded! I wanted to use trunking but was told i wasnt allowed and in all honesty there was little room for it as i did not order the enclosure most of the components where pre ordered by my boss while i was on holiday as he knew what i would need roughly! I would of preffered a slightly larger enclosure No saterlite E-Stop i made the suggestion but it was rejected! There are a full set of drawings all labelled with terminal numbers! I did attempt wite labelling but the number supplied by my company where useless and just didnt stick and they wouldnt buy an alternative!

Im always open to suggestions im trying to drag the standard up. As for my spelling ive always been usless and always will be!

Ash
 
The permanent marker was removed, door, back plate and enclosure where all bonded! I wanted to use trunking but was told i wasnt allowed and in all honesty there was little room for it as i did not order the enclosure most of the components where pre ordered by my boss while i was on holiday as he knew what i would need roughly! I would of preffered a slightly larger enclosure No saterlite E-Stop i made the suggestion but it was rejected! There are a full set of drawings all labelled with terminal numbers! I did attempt wite labelling but the number supplied by my company where useless and just didnt stick and they wouldnt buy an alternative!

Im always open to suggestions im trying to drag the standard up. As for my spelling ive always been usless and always will be!

Ash

Many people aren't great at spelling mate (although an online dictionary is a great tool). Not knowing how to spell what you are is a bit like not knowing how to spell your own name though. People notice :)
 
The permanent marker was removed, door, back plate and enclosure where all bonded! I wanted to use trunking but was told i wasnt allowed and in all honesty there was little room for it as i did not order the enclosure most of the components where pre ordered by my boss while i was on holiday as he knew what i would need roughly! I would of preffered a slightly larger enclosure No saterlite E-Stop i made the suggestion but it was rejected! There are a full set of drawings all labelled with terminal numbers! I did attempt wite labelling but the number supplied by my company where useless and just didnt stick and they wouldnt buy an alternative!

Im always open to suggestions im trying to drag the standard up. As for my spelling ive always been usless and always will be!

Ash

I knew full well when i made my comment, that this would have been a company policy thing, and not left to an apprentice to decide what is going into the panel and what's not!...lol!!

The thing is though, when that panel reaches the customer, that could in all likelihood have a Maintenance or Engineering Manager. ...Now he's not going to be too impressed when he opens the panel door, and sees a quagmire of un-numbered panel wiring cables, no flexible spiral wrap binding for loomed door cables, among other omissions.... He will probably know how much this panel cost his company as well (if you get my meaning?). There is rarely if ever, a reason not to number control wiring or not to use a form of panel wiring containment and loom control to opening doors in a control panel.

Apart from anything else, aesthetically it just doesn't look a professional job at the end of the day... Again, there is no way anyone should be blaming you for the omissions, this is definitely a company policy or management problem...
 
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We are not a panel building company we are just a small maintenance department the press has gone to one of our other sites! So any maintenance would be carried out this is there justification for lack of things!

Ash
 
ash,its shocking mate,not strictly your fault and youve been brave posting the pics and the obvious grief you would get,but all the above should point you in the right direction of panel building,stick to your guns next time,as at the end of the day,that panel left the workshop with your name on it..
 
Well done for coming on ash and talking us through what went on etc and showing it wasn't the finished article.
Being honest mate no panel should ever be assembled without trunking,in fact I've never seen one in 20 years that hasn't,it's super shoddy.
As for spirap etc it's great stuff but to learn properly and make for a far cheaper alternative then use looming cord,I never touched spirap until I left the training school but it's common now.
Its hard working for a firm that won't back you but if your a maintenance man then there's lots of opportunities to move on to something that appreciates your efforts a bit more and actually backs you up rather than saying "no" all the time.
Dont just accept having crap spelling,it's hateful to read text speak etc and through no fault of your own schools have let spelling/grammar/punctuation decline so far over the last 15 years when labour came in that you've probably never been corrected for it the way we were!!!
I'm naturally good at English etc probably because I'm Welsh (which sounds odd but it makes you try a bit harder) and had a good education although others I know drastically improved their spelling by simply reading a lot more.
Where are you based? I'm guessing Wales yourself being a Williams??
 
We are not a panel building company we are just a small maintenance department the press has gone to one of our other sites! So any maintenance would be carried out this is there justification for lack of things!

Ash

Firstly, thanks for showing your work.
Secondly, holes are rightfully being blown into this example!

You have stated you are not a panel building company... who has verified your circuit design in relation to the Press risk assessment?

Presses... are they covered by special regulations?

Your 400vac (assumed as no signs) feed wiring is in black... your +24vdc is in black... your switched neutral is in blue... your PSU supply (230vac) is in blue... your -24vdc is in blue... You say you want to raise standards... DO IT BY ADHERING TO CURRENT STANDARDS.

Is it an earthed ELV control circuit?

Your lack of wire numbers may be omitted assuming your schematics are spot-on! I take it you have schematics... if so are they computer drafted?

What are you powering with that PSU? It's huge. What is it rated at? 10 or 20A?

These days anything over four relays should be replaced with a programmable logic block or smart relay... thats not to say it must be.

Safety relay? To what safety category have you installed to? Are external monitoring contacts used as part of resetting the light barrier?

What tells you that the motor DOL has tripped? If it alerts the operator then it prevents him fiddling when he can't start the m/c.

Are we to assume all your field wiring leaves from the top of the panel?

I'm not keen on your control wiring passing so close over the supply of the isolator.


Your last sentence... they should not be left wanting!


Please show a photo of your schematics.

regards
s.f
 
Im based in Oswestry Shropshire, But work in Wrexham, North Wales.

Again i am happy to recieve any advice and help i have recieved no proper training or guidance from a proper panel builder. Now you mention in i to have never seen an electrical panel without trunking.

Next panel i build i will insist apon trunking and ill post some pictures up when im done.

Ash
 
Guys I reckon some of us should cut this lad just a little slack here, in his OP he clearly states he's an apprentice. Ok he's nearly out of his time but nonetheless he is still an apprentice and as such is still under the guidance and supervision of someone qualified (I hope). He's posted the pic up because he's feeling a little proud of something he's done which is why I only said what I did in my first reply to him. Yes there's problems but they're not down to him imho
 
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