MY TV`s FREEVIEW CHANNELS HAVE WORSE PICTURE QUALITY AFTER SWITCHOVER !

[chris murphy]

"Hello All",

I have had Freeview on all of the TV`s in My Home since Freeview became available - all with a Great Picture.

I live in London as We have just had the `Switchover` on 4th and 18th April - Since then the TV Pictures have been NOT Great and have been adversely affected by the recent `Bad Weather` / Rain etc.

I am sure that I read often in the run up to the Switchover that the Signals would be `Better` and that Bad Weather would NOT affect the Signals ?

I have never seen the Weather affect the Picture / Signals before the Switchover.


I am near the Transmitter Tower for My Area and have had Great Pictures / Signals for over 25 Years - UNTIL NOW !

I cannot imagine that this means I would need to change My Aerials - Why would I have been receiving Great Pictures in the YEARS preceding the `Switchover` BUT Worse Pictures / Signals since then - when it had been stated that the Switchover would Improve the Signals ?


I have tried having the Aerial positions adjusted slightly - but they needed to be returned to the original positions to receive the now Inferior Signals / Pictures.

I cannot Try / use Signal Boosters as I have Sky wired to and connected to the Aerial Sockets of 2 of the TV`s - a Signal Booster interferes with the Signal from the 2nd Output from the Sky Digibox - I think via the small voltage supply to the Magic Eye for the Remote Controls [?] - causing NO Sky Signal - Remove Signal Booster = Sky Signal Works again.


I am hoping for comments from Members regarding the points about My Freeview Signals being Worse since the Switchover AND the Signals / Pictures being BADLY Affected by Bad Weather / Heavy Rain - as most Areas have had the Switchover quite a long time ago do any Members remember these Problems in their Area ?


Regards,


Chris

 

[UNG]

Have you rescanned / retuned the freeview channels since the switchover?

 

[chris murphy]

Have you rescanned / retuned the freeview channels since the switchover?

"Hello UNG",


Yes I did Retune on the 4th & 18th of April as required for the Switchover - and a couple of times again since then - just hoping that there were perhaps Problems with the Retunes on those two Dates - the additional Retunes did not Help.

Thanks for replying and mentioning that - in case it might have been the problem - I appreciate it.

Regards,


Chris

 

[UNG]

When you rescan make sure you clear the previously stored channels this can cause the problems you have

Don't know your exact location in London but when they did the North West and North Wales switchover in some areas they picked up reception from the wrong transmitter with a lower channel range which caused problems. you would need to know which channel range is used by your local transmitter and check what channel range you are receiving to check if this is the problem

 

[chris murphy]

When you rescan make sure you clear the previously stored channels this can cause the problems you have

Don't know your exact location in London but when they did the North West and North Wales switchover in some areas they picked up reception from the wrong transmitter with a lower channel range which caused problems. you would need to know which channel range is used by your local transmitter and check what channel range you are receiving to check if this is the problem

"Hello again UNG",

Thanks for your further suggestion about the Transmitter and clearing the previous Channels.

Regarding clearing the Channels this is an Automatic process on My TV Models and the Freeview boxes - in fact I have read in the Instruction Manuals that they `Retune automatically` every time that You put them on Standby - and IF a New Channel became available You would then have it the next time that the TV / Freeview Box was turned On.

I know that they definitely have always been Retuned from Factory Reset / `First Time Configuration` / First Time Channel Search - so the previously Tuned Channels would have been Deleted.

Regarding making sure that I am receiving the Signals from My Areas Transmitter I am close to the Main London / South London / North Kent / Surrey Transmitter at Crystal Palace which is the nearest Transmitter to My Area [by a long way] and has always been the one that We receive the TV Signals from.

I know that this is not necessarily the case in all areas that the Nearest Transmitter is where You get the best signal from but it is definitely the correct one for My Area of London.

Most of the Freeview Menu`s regarding `First Time Set Up` / Channel Tuning that I have on My TV`s and Freeview Boxes show the Predominant Transmitter so that You can check that it IS the one for your region - My TV`s / Freeview Boxes configuration Menu`s do show Crystal Palace as the Local Transmitter.


Again I am VERY Grateful for your suggestions as one of them could have been causing the Problem - "Thanks"


Regards,


Chris

 

[Tuttle]

I had trouble with the picture on one of my freeview boxes breaking up (going blocky) after the switch over and another (different manufactures) box reporting no signal for some channels. I fixed the no signal problem by resetting the box to factory settings, which also clears all channels on this particular box, and then re-tuning.

The box with the picture breaking up was showing a good signal strength but a signal quality that was going up and down erratically (there is a channel info option in the menus on this box that displays bar graphs). In the end I changed the aerial amp in the attic to one with variable gain and turned the gain down, which fixed the problem completely - good picture and good signal quality.

I'm picking up my TV signal from crystal palace. When they did the switch over they also increased the transmitter power, so it could be that the higher power signal is overloading some receivers, especially for people living close to the transmitter (I'm nowhere near the transmitter - I'm in Reading).

 

[chris murphy]

I had trouble with the picture on one of my freeview boxes breaking up (going blocky) after the switch over and another (different manufactures) box reporting no signal for some channels. I fixed the no signal problem by resetting the box to factory settings, which also clears all channels on this particular box, and then re-tuning.

The box with the picture breaking up was showing a good signal strength but a signal quality that was going up and down erratically (there is a channel info option in the menus on this box that displays bar graphs). In the end I changed the aerial amp in the attic to one with variable gain and turned the gain down, which fixed the problem completely - good picture and good signal quality.

I'm picking up my TV signal from crystal palace. When they did the switch over they also increased the transmitter power, so it could be that the higher power signal is overloading some receivers, especially for people living close to the transmitter (I'm nowhere near the transmitter - I'm in Reading).

"Hello Tuttle",


Thanks for your reply - I have been getting the Signal Quality Bars fluctuating Up and Down when it has been Raining heavily - I thought that I read previously that the Digital Signal would NOT be affected by Rain etc. ?

I had previously thought about Signal Boosters - when Freeview first came out - But after trying one it stopped the Signal from the Sky Boxes 2nd Output which I have wired in Sattelite Cable to some of the Aerial Sockets of the TV`s using a `Y Splitter` [Tee Piece] which also connects the Aerial Cable or Freeview Box Cable to the TV - as some TV`s have built in Freeview and the other older spare Bedroom TV`s have Freeview Boxes.

Even assuming that there was a Product that would NOT `Stop` the Sky 2nd Output Signal - I don`t really want to have to rewire the Aerial Cable from every TV in the House into the Loft / a Central position - for one thing I cannot actually get into a large aera of the Loft Space AND the Loft is completely Insulated with 420mm of Loft Insulation.

As You know this is far from Ideal if You want to access an area of the Loft or actually Do anything in the Loft Space !

At present I have 3 `Good` Aerials and 2 Sky Dishes / Boxes and I THOUGHT that I had everything `Sorted` well in advance of the Switchover - YEARS in fact !


I should explain that there are 2 TV`s connected to each of the 2 Sky Digiboxes - I of each conventionally via a Scart lead and then the other 2 are wired with Sattelite Cable from the Digibox 2nd Output under the Floor to the other Bedroom TV`s with a `Magic Eye` on each controlling the Digibox with a Sky Remote Control.

BUT these `Secondary` TV`s on the 2nd Output can only watch whatever is being watched On the other TV connected to the Digibox [IF anything is being watched] - OR Watch the Freeview Channels - that is why I would like the Freeview working correctly.


Now I have this problem with the `New` / `Better` Digital Signal Quality - mainly in Rain / Bad Weather.



Thanks again for your reply and suggestions - unfortunately I cannot put them into operation because of the circumstances of My TV`s Sky Inputs.


I may have to just forget about the spare Bedroom TV`s / Freeview Channels which probably would not be too inconvenient as those TV`s don`t really get used that much unless I have People staying.


I just HATE the idea of supposedly `Being Ready` for the Digital Switchover YEARS ahead of time and NOW having this problem !



Regards,



Chris



P.S. "Sorry everyone that this Post is so long.

 

[Tuttle]

I just had a quick look on the Internet for information on Crystal Palace (don't know if that's what you're on) and apparently "On 18th April 2012 transmitter power increased to 200kW on all multiplexes (from previous 10-20kW levels)" making it one of the highest power TV transmitters in the UK. That's according to Crystal Palace TV Transmitter, London Freeview Channels.

That sounds like a pretty substantial increase to me!

I'm not an aerial fitter by the way, and I don't know much about it, I just thought I'd let you know about my experiences with the switch over just in case it helps.

If I were you I'd phone some local aerial companies and ask them, they might know straight away what you're problem is.

 

[chris murphy]

I just had a quick look on the Internet for information on Crystal Palace (don't know if that's what you're on) and apparently "On 18th April 2012 transmitter power increased to 200kW on all multiplexes (from previous 10-20kW levels)" making it one of the highest power TV transmitters in the UK. That's according to Crystal Palace TV Transmitter, London Freeview Channels.

That sounds like a pretty substantial increase to me!

I'm not an aerial fitter by the way, and I don't know much about it, I just thought I'd let you know about my experiences with the switch over just in case it helps.

If I were you I'd phone some local aerial companies and ask them, they might know straight away what you're problem is.

"Hello Tuttle",


Thanks for your reply and the Link to the webpage about the Crystal Palace Transmitter which is the Transmitter for My area of London - I found the Information interesting although I don`t think that it shows any reason for My Problems - unless the Signal Strength Increase could cause them.

The Information about the `Vast` Increase in Signal Strength [10 Times] seems to show that this would actually `Help` the Reception for areas Close to the Transmitter [?].


Regarding Me contacting Local Aerial Companies to ask about My TV Reception Problems since the Digital Switchover - I am NOT being cynical here But:

They would definitely say that they had to send an `Engineer` to check My Aerials - this would obviously be Chargeable and would almost certainly lead to Me being told that I needed ALL the Aerials to be `Upgraded` to the [Non Existent] `Digital Aerials`.

I am aware of `High Gain` Aerials which are [in My opinion] incorrectly referred to as `Digital Aerials` and what I have fitted are versions of these `High Gain` Aerials.

EDIT - HAVING FOUND THE RECEIPT FOR THE AERIALS THAT I FITTED THEY ARE NOT `HIGH GAIN` AERIALS - JUST GOOD QUALITY `GROUP A` MAST AERIALS.

I have this opinion because when Freeview was first available I wanted to get ready to receive it for the TV`s that I had which were not connected to Sky Digiboxes [at that time] and I did contact some Aerial Installation Companies as I THOUGHT that I would need My Aerials Upgraded to `Digital Aerials` - I was NOT aware at that point that there is NO Such Aerial.

These Companies ALL stated that I would need them Upgraded to New `Digital Aerials` and the Quotes for 2 Aerials were Absolutely Ridiculous ! - Hundreds of Pounds !

I declined and started to research about Upgrading Aerials for Freeview / Digital Reception - I then found out that there is NO such thing as a `Digital Aerial`.

About 2 Years before that I had a New Roof put onto My Home and while the Scaffolding was up I Installed 3 new Aerials - Two to the Main Roof / Chimney`s and One to the Extension Roof Gable End - with help and an Aerial Signal `Finder` I positioned these Aerials to obtain `Great Pictures` on the TV`s.

I also had a Sky Installer check the Sky Dishes for the Cable Connections being Waterproof and that there was no degrading of the Satellite Cables at Roof Level and all the way to the entry points into the Building.

I mention this only to explain that My Aerials were already `New` when I was asking about the `Digital Aerial` Upgrade - I had told all of the Aerial Companies that I contacted what I wrote above - They ALL still told Me that there WAS such a thing as a `Digital Aerial` and quoted Hundreds of Pounds to Install 2 !


When the Freeview Channels became available We instantly had Great Pictures on the Freeview Channels using Set Top Boxes - So I assumed that the Aerials were correctly positioned for Freeview - Luckily.

When I purchased a couple of new TV`s they were obviously had built in Freeview - again I received Great Pictures with the existing Aerial positions.

When I had the Freeview Problems after the Switchover recently I had help from some Friends to check the positioning of the Aerials again - having moved the Aerials around we had to return them to the original positions to get the Best Reception for the TV Channels - although the problems still existed on the Freeview Channels which were problematic.

Since then We have noticed - mainly in Bad Weather / Heavy Rain which We have had plenty of recently - that the problems seem to be mainly on the ITV Channels - ITV1 - ITV2 - ITV3 - ITV4 and sometimes Channels 4 and 5 - there does not seem to be as many problems with the other Freeview Channels and seemingly NONE with the BBC Channels.

I cannot be exact about this because We have not spent Hours and Hours watching ALL of the Freeview Channels at times of these Signal Problems.


Thanks again Tuttle for your reply - I appreciate you trying to help Me.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Tuttle]

Hi Chris,

The Information about the `Vast` Increase in Signal Strength [10 Times] seems to show that this would actually `Help` the Reception for areas Close to the Transmitter [?].
Chris

Not necessarily. If you feed too much signal into your receiver then you might saturate the analogue stages and distort the signal. Don't forget that the RF signal that you receive is still an analogue signal and needs to be amplified by your receiver, and probably mixed down to a lower frequency etc, before it can be turned into a digital signal. If you saturate the input stages of your receiver then you will distort the received signal and corrupt the data carried by that signal.

Also, if you distort the signal, can you really rely on the received signal strength reported by your box? It probably depends on how your box measures signal strength. I wouldn't mind betting that the box doesn't measure the amplitude of the RF signal coming out of your aerial cable, but actually measures the signal strength at a later stage in the receiver circuitry and so the reported signal level could potentially be effected by signal distortion in the earlier stages.

What I am trying to say is don't dismiss the increased transmitter power without consideration just because more signal sounds better not worse. If you are right on top of the transmitter then you have to wonder if the signal you are receiving is too strong. I assume that you don't already have any amplification between the aerial and the receiver?

For me, I had no problems at all before the switch over, my problems started on the day of the switch over earlier this month. I started to look at what had changed on that day and ignored things that hadn't changed, i.e. they switched off the analogue signal, probably not going to make much difference to digital receivers, they turned up the wick, I thought that was a possible cause so I reduced the gain of my aerial amp and that fixed the problem. At that point I stopped looking, i.e. there could be some other significant changes that I don't know about because I stopped looking once the problem went away.

 

[Tuttle]

I've just done a quick Google search and turned up this: Freeview signals: too much of a good thing is bad for you | ukfree.tv - independent free digital TV advice

 

[Tuttle]

It looks like they sell attenuators in Maplin: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...sg=AFQjCNGYs8SnUWuWfmvySe5rMVhrN2XD1Q&cad=rja

and also in B&Q, amongst other places (I searched for "digital tv aerial signal attenuator" on Google shopping)

 

[Spudnik]

Indeed, too much gain can also cause picture "blocking:.

I have also read somewhere that some (older freeview) TV's wont even be able to receive the new frequencies?

 

[PC Electrics]

I used to suffer from channel drop out during wind and/or rain. So I fitted a new aerial and hey presto, perfect all the time now. As your aerial is 25+ years old, I'd say you've had a fair life out of it and it's time for a new one.

 

[chris murphy]

Hi Chris,



Not necessarily. If you feed too much signal into your receiver then you might saturate the analogue stages and distort the signal. Don't forget that the RF signal that you receive is still an analogue signal and needs to be amplified by your receiver, and probably mixed down to a lower frequency etc, before it can be turned into a digital signal. If you saturate the input stages of your receiver then you will distort the received signal and corrupt the data carried by that signal.

Also, if you distort the signal, can you really rely on the received signal strength reported by your box? It probably depends on how your box measures signal strength. I wouldn't mind betting that the box doesn't measure the amplitude of the RF signal coming out of your aerial cable, but actually measures the signal strength at a later stage in the receiver circuitry and so the reported signal level could potentially be effected by signal distortion in the earlier stages.

What I am trying to say is don't dismiss the increased transmitter power without consideration just because more signal sounds better not worse. If you are right on top of the transmitter then you have to wonder if the signal you are receiving is too strong. I assume that you don't already have any amplification between the aerial and the receiver?

For me, I had no problems at all before the switch over, my problems started on the day of the switch over earlier this month. I started to look at what had changed on that day and ignored things that hadn't changed, i.e. they switched off the analogue signal, probably not going to make much difference to digital receivers, they turned up the wick, I thought that was a possible cause so I reduced the gain of my aerial amp and that fixed the problem. At that point I stopped looking, i.e. there could be some other significant changes that I don't know about because I stopped looking once the problem went away.

"Hello Tuttle",

Thanks for the message - I really appreciate your comments and the Links that You enclosed in the messages.

My comment that You quoted was not My opinion - I thought that Information on the previous website that You directed Me to was suggesting that the Transmitter Signal Strength Increase was actually designed to provide better Reception for the Homes that are Close to the Crystal Palace Transmitter [?] - although I have not had time Tonight to go back and verify that.

I am not VERY Close to the Transmitter - a few Miles away - But Homes that are really Close have had problems for Decades with what has been [Incorrectly ?] described in a Non Technical way as the Signal `Going over the Top` of the Homes - where the Homes are actually `Under` the Transmitter / within a few hundred Yards of the Tower.

I took the paragraph that I was commenting about to mean that Homes that are within a short distance of the Transmitter - even a few Miles away perhaps - would benefit from the Increase in Signal Strength - ?


I may have misread that and I will go back and look at it - But I can completely see that what You have stated could easily be the case regarding the Signal has now become `Too Strong`.

Thanks for the Link in your third message Tonight for the attenuator - I had wondered about getting one of those to try and Adjust the Signal Strength and I use a local Maplin Store where I will buy one to try out.

Having glanced at the website that you gave Me the Link for in your next message - the subject of Signal Quality seems to be perhaps equally important - if not more important ? - within the Information that I again `Glanced at` Tonight the problems that I have are described in a paragraph on Signal Quality.

I wonder if using a variable strength attenuator to lower the Signal Strength would mean that the Signal Quality could be Improved ?

I will obviously buy one and experiment with it on all the affected TV`s and IF this works I will buy one for each TV.


Thank You very much Tuttle - I really appreciate all of your Help and that You have done some online research - giving Me Links to what You have found which is very helpful.

When I started to have the Problems - immediately after the Freeview Switchover - I did go online to look for Information - where there were Thousands of sites available - BUT it has been particularly helpful to correspond with You and of course to read the webpages that You very kindly found and Linked for Me - "Thanks".

I will definitely carefully read the Information that You posted the Links to [Tonight] Tomorrow or Saturday and re-read the previous webpage relating to the Crystal Palace Transmitter.

I have Edited an earlier Post in Capital Letters to change what I stated about having `High Gain` Aerials - I have NOT got that type - I have Good Quality `Group A` Mast Aerials - which gave Excellent TV Reception on Freeview for Years before the Freeview / Digital Switchover this Month and I am sure are more than suitable for the `New` Freeview / Digital TV Signals.


I may be able to buy the Variable Strength Attenuator on Sunday from Maplin - But that is not definite as I may not be able to go out on that Day - whatever happens I will buy one by next Sunday and will then try it as soon as possible.

There is a problem with this as the ONLY Times that there are severe Problems seems to be when it is Raining Heavily [So most of the last 8 Days !] - So really I should be trying the Attenuator when I am having the Signal Problems to be able to see `Instantly` IF the Attenuator does solve the Problems.

When I get the Attenuator and get the Rainy Weather to Test whether it solves the Problems I will definitely Post the result on here for You to read.


"Thanks again for all of Your Help"


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

I used to suffer from channel drop out during wind and/or rain. So I fitted a new aerial and hey presto, perfect all the time now. As your aerial is 25+ years old, I'd say you've had a fair life out of it and it's time for a new one.

"Hello PC Electrics",


Thanks for your reply - My Aerials are not 25 Years old - I take it that You thought this from My comment:

`I am near the Transmitter Tower for My Area and have had Great Pictures / Signals for over 25 Years - UNTIL NOW !`

That was just a statement about NEVER having any Signal Problems from the Crystal Palace Transmitter in the 25 Years that I have lived in My Home.

My Aerials and the High Quality Screened Co-Ax cables are still in a fairly `New` Condition - they were looked at only a Week ago when with help I tried repositioning them to see if that would solve the problems - it did not and We returned them to the original positions which were Identified with a Signal Strength Meter.

If I did have 25 Year old Aerials I definitely would have replaced them.

I do appreciate Your reply - "Thanks"


Regards,


Chris

 

[ian.settle1]

I have read some where that when recieving the digital dignal the aerial has to be pointing directly towards the transmitter to get a clear signal unlike the old analogue signal which could have the aerial slightly off

 

[chris murphy]

I have read some where that when recieving the digital dignal the aerial has to be pointing directly towards the transmitter to get a clear signal unlike the old analogue signal which could have the aerial slightly off

"Hello ian.settle1",


Please don`t be offended by this - would that not mean that a VAST number of Homes in the Country would have had problems after the Switchover ? - as their Aerials would NOT have been perfectly aligned.

I did use an Aerial Signal Finder when I Installed My Aerials but how many People do that or have it done when Aerials are fitted - ?

I would guess that ALL Aerial Fitters use Signal Finders as they are a very inexpensive item [Approx. £15.00] - But what proportion of Aerials in the U.K. have been fitted by Aerial Installers ?


Regards,


Chris

 

[Dan the spark]

Just a quick one to think about, what's the cable like coming down from the aerial? Had one before that had been rubbing around on the roof tiles for a few years in the wind and had worn through and when it rained the water got into the cable and the tv kept cutting out and going rubbish, this only happened with the new signals

 

[chris murphy]

Just a quick one to think about, what's the cable like coming down from the aerial? Had one before that had been rubbing around on the roof tiles for a few years in the wind and had worn through and when it rained the water got into the cable and the tv kept cutting out and going rubbish, this only happened with the new signals

"Hello Dan",

Thanks for mentioning the Cable - as You stated this could cause problems - but not in my case.

I had the Aerial Cables looked at only about a Week ago when with the help of a couple of Friends / Ladders / Roof Ladders I had the Aerial Positions checked.

The Insulation / Cable Covering was not damaged or degraded as far as could be seen.

When I Installed the Aerials I bought and used the `Best` Aerial / Co-Ax Cable that I could find - it was `Double Screened` [If I remember the term correctly] and had the `Best Quality` Covering for External Use - I remember it being VERY Expensive.


The Problems that I have experienced started EXACTLY on Wednesday 18th April - Immediately upon Retuning the TV`s / TV / Freeview Boxes.

The Weather at that time [and often since !] was Heavy Rain and the problems were evident on ALL My TV`s - Both where Freeview is built into the TV`s and where there is a TV with a Freeview Box connected.

The Pictures were Freezing - `Pixalating` - and the Sound was broken up - Completely Unwatchable.


I am intending to Buy and Experiment with a Variable Strength Adjustment Attenuator to see If I can Lower the Signal Strength and therefore increase the Quality of the Signal [?]

I don`t know if seems Contradictory ? - Before corresponding about this on here and receiving some Very Interesting Replies I would have thought that the Stronger the Signal the `Better` - But I will Try with the Attenuator.

I will Post the Results - I cannot get the Attenuator until next Sunday - 6th May - I will then have to hope for a Day / Evening with Heavy Rain to replicate the Signal Problems



Please excuse Me not writing a Full explanation about the Problems again - I have described them in My other Posts.


Thanks again for your suggestion - I am sure that this may be helpful to someone else.


Regards