Neutral & live reverse polarity

[Laura Spicer]

I’m not an electrician so apologies if my terminology is off, but I’m looking for some help. 3 months ago we had solar panels installed and we had our electricity company out today to install a smartmeter. The first thing they did was check the electrics were ok before they started and they found out neutral and live connections had been switched between the fuse box & fit meter. They checked a lot of sockets throughout the house and they were all affected. Both he EDF guys and the solar guy who came to fix it were pretty horrified, but I’d like to know what the actual dangers were before we lodge a complaint with the solar panel company. We have 2 young children, 16 months and 3 when it was installed. If I understand correctly all the sockets were live despite being switched off and we could have had electric shocks off any of the appliances in the house. My husband was planning on sinking a socket this weekend, what would have happened if we hadn’t found out and the socket was still live when he did this? Is there more? It seems to be so rare that google isn’t giving me much, but the reactions we had from professionals were pretty worrying. Thank you for any information.

 

[The Ghost]

Well I think you said it really, things still being live when you think you switched them off. The other main possibility is damaging equipment. It is one of the primary tests and it is unthinkable that it was left out by some one. This is gross negligence.
In Tort there are three hurdles to claiming damages. One, was there a duty of care? Absolutely-Two was the duty of care breached? clearly it was-And three did any harm result from it? No.
However had your Husband decided to sink a socket and was not competent electrically he may have been electrocuted. If he undertook work he was not competent to do then and harm resulted that would count as contributory negligence.
I think you have had a very lucky escape. Give thanks no harm resulted from this.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It’s probably more dangerous for people working on the installation than for people using it.
A lot depends on how you use the sockets and whether they have double pole switching.
For instance, do you regularly switch off at the socket and leave items plugged in?
If yes, are the sockets single or double pole switching?
Changing lamps in light fittings however would be more dangerous with reverse polarity, as the lamp holders would be live all the time.

 

[Laura Spicer]

Thank you so much for helping. Sorry if I’m being stupid, he would have switched the electrics off at the mains, and the mis-connection was between the fuse box & fit meter, so would he still have been at risk? It’s diy all the way here so he wouldn’t have actually checked if the socket was live once the mains were off...

 

[westward10]

Few electrical appliances are polarity sensitive after all in many European countries plugs can be fitted both ways. The main danger is pulling a fuse or switching a circuit breaker the circuit remains unexpectedly live. Even screw in lamp holders these days are not polarity sensitive but yes someone has made a serious error in judgement. Thankfully no one has been seriously hurt or killed and a warning to your husband just because it looks off never assume it is not live.

 

[KEV 1 N]

I wouldn't be fobbed off with only an apology from the solar company, that "mistake" should have been picked up during testing and commissioning of the the panels....so it proves little or no tests were done, I'd be wondering if any other corners have been cut by the solar installer.

 

[Octopus]

You need to locate a local spark via recommendation and get this checked and sorted...

 

[The Ghost]

You should have a label indicating that there are two supplies that must be switched off. Had he switched off the utilities supply and left the solar switched on then he could be electrocuted. If the label is absent then again a very serious mistake. Of course as you say it is diy all the way here. I would strongly advise not to diy electrics get the pros in, I know it can be expensive but if the worst happened for the sake of a hundred quid or so?...
But anyway in the industry there is very specific ways to test for dead and no-one in their right mind would not check. I really think your Husband should keep away from electrics, he is a danger to himself from what you say.

 

[Wilko]

Agree with Spin - the main danger is for someone working on the electrics. There is a specific requirement to test the polarity and record the result so at the least they should correct the fault and retest the installation.

 

[The Ghost]

Thinking about it I would say there is a very good case for commissioning an EICR to inspect your electrics and produce a report for which the firm who did this work should foot the bill.

 

[KEV 1 N]

Thank you so much for helping. Sorry if I’m being stupid, he would have switched the electrics off at the mains, and the mis-connection was between the fuse box & fit meter, so would he still have been at risk? It’s diy all the way here so he wouldn’t have actually checked if the socket was live once the mains were off...

If your husband had turned off the main switch, then that would switch off both live and neutral....but if he just turned off the smaller mcb for the sockets, that would have ONLY disconnected neutral (due to live/neutral reversed) so the socket would still be live, even though items plugged into the sockets no longer worked.

 

[Octopus]

^^ if the house has a dual rcd configuration then turning off the one relevant to the circuit you want to fiddle with.

That said , this needs sorting and fast ...

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I would suggest you persuade your husband to purchase a Fluke non-contact voltage tester (about £25) if he intends carrying any more DIY work.
There are cheaper versions about but I would not recommend them.

 

[KEV 1 N]

I think from the way the OPs first post reads, it has been sorted as it's mentioned that the solar guy came back to fix it, after EDF discovered the fault, I take it is was a different person to the one who installed panels?

 

[MJPD29]

Don't let them pass it off with a Sorry, it's an awful and unprofessional mistake that is dangerous and if at all tested would have been noticed. Shows lack of testing, carelessness and makes you wonder if the person who installed it even knew whay they were doing? What else have they done that's poor standard? Don't let the company away with it

 

[Deleted member 9648]

In general everyday use as has already been stated there would be minimal risk from a reversed polarity, but serious risk if alterations were to take place to the installation.
Firstly I think the OP should contact the installer and see what they have to say and ascertain whether the correct certificates were supplied. The company should also be asked to pay for an independent check of the installation for your peace of mind.
Mistakes do happen with even the most professional companies, it's rare but sometimes circumstances intervene and things get missed that should be picked up. Despite all the condemnation there's not one electrician on here who at some point has not made a mistake that could have had dire consequences, we work with a lethal mix in a pressured world.

 

[Dannyg8810]

Your husband would only be at risk if he didn’t carry out safe isolation before doing the work on the electrics!

But your talking what ifs you should be thankful nothing happened instead asking every possible what if

I agree with that they should foot the bill for a EICR and repairs there responsible for

 

[westward10]

Why assume the solar fitters did this, might have been like it for years although it should have been spotted by them.

 

[Dannyg8810]

Why assume the solar fitters did this, might have been like it for years although it should have been spotted by them.

I actually thought that’s swell

 

[shaun1]

Don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but reversing polarity also increases the risk of fire in the event of a fault as Neutral (now live) to earth faults would not be protected by a fuse or circuit breaker.