New build outside light

[Nigel]

In case someone drills a nice hole into the cable in the wall...........

I don't follow. There is no guarantee that someone would hit the CPC and live conductor. The circuit would also still disconnect if the live and neutral was hit.

There are other things in place to prevent electric shock from drilling.

 

[Midwest]

Why?

Why would a new installation be installed in such a way, so that the potential unknown owner would have to install Class 2 luminaires?

To coin previous catch phrases, although not impossible, just very unlikely.

 

[Markyd]

I don't follow. There is no guarantee that someone would hit the CPC and live conductor. The circuit would also still disconnect if the live and neutral was hit.

There are other things in place to prevent electric shock from drilling.

And what if they didn't hit the live and neutral just the live and earth.......or in your case just the live because there is no earth........

 

[Midwest]

And what if they didn't hit the live and neutral just the live and earth.......or in your case just the live because there is no earth........

To be fair, I experienced a fault, where a previous home owner had nailed a dado rail to a wall, nicking just one strapper in a tw&e. Livened up the whole wall for the next 10 years, depending on which way the landing light was switched.

 

[Markyd]

To be fair, I experienced a fault, where a previous home owner had nailed a dado rail to a wall, nicking just one strapper in a tw&e. Livened up the whole wall for the next 10 years, depending on which way the landing light was switched.

Nice.......but I bet he had an earth.....seems that Essex is quite prepared to run a cable to an external light without one

 

[Midwest]

Nice.......but I bet he had an earth.....seems that Essex is quite prepared to run a cable to an external light without one

I don't think so; I think he is trying to cite what the regulations state, in which he appears to be correct.

However, this is not helping the OP.

 

[Nigel]

Why would a new installation be installed in such a way, so that the potential unknown owner would have to install Class 2 luminaires?

To coin previous catch phrases, although not impossible, just very unlikely.

I am not doubting there stupidity, just debating whether it is actually against BS 7671.

 

[Nigel]

Nice.......but I bet he had an earth.....seems that Essex is quite prepared to run a cable to an external light without one

Whether it had an earth or not is irrelevant as in the example it counted for nothing.

I would be happy to run a cable to any double insulated electrical equipment with no earth as it is specifically stated that an earth is not required. Would I do it in the ops case - no.

 

[Midwest]

I am not doubting there stupidity, just debating whether it is actually against BS 7671.

Ok, but it doesn't help the OP; we all know - unless the particular installer had gone wibble that day - that there will be a cpc at this particular point in question. OP just has to look for it. Now he knows this is the normal accepted way of doing things.

 

[Wilko]

I am not doubting there stupidity, just debating whether it is actually against BS 7671.

Hi - if I've understood correctly, you've asked does BS7671 specify a cpc shall be run with a circuit (?). If so, referring to Reg 543.6.1, I think that is a yes in this case.

 

[clematis432]

Getting a bit complex for the OP (me) Is there no definitive then, on whether a CPC should be taken to an external class 2 luminaire on a new installation ?

 

[Ian1981]

Getting a bit complex for the OP (me) Is there no definitive then, on whether a CPC should be taken to an external class 2 luminaire on a new installation ?

On a new installation then yes of course a cpc should have been ran to the light.
Irrelevant if it’s class 2 what if it was to be changed in the future to a class 1?
Can’t be done because some numpty cut the cpc out?
The regulations require a cpc to each point.
You are not using the protective measure double and reinforced insulation as it’s prohibited on a domestic installation.
It’s the same principle as wiring to a light switch which is plastic,why wouldn’t you install a cpc to it? What’s worse is, if it’s a twin and cpc cable ,the cpc has been cut off!
Hope this helps

 

[Midwest]

Getting a bit complex for the OP (me) Is there no definitive then, on whether a CPC should be taken to an external class 2 luminaire on a new installation ?

It will have one there, unless the contractor lost his head; you just don't need to earth a Class 2 fitting, in fact you must not (manufacturers instructions taken into account).

So when you go back to your sons house, locate the earth & connect it to your Class1 fitting in an orderly fashion.

Ignore the heated debate, it will be there & you will find it. However you will need to verify its continuity.

PS if its not there, sue the ba****ds

 

[Nigel]

Ok, but it doesn't help the OP; we all know - unless the particular installer had gone wibble that day - that there will be a cpc at this particular point in question. OP just has to look for it. Now he knows this is the normal accepted way of doing things.

I think it does help as the op is looking to go back to the builder. If there is no Reg break then he cannot do that.

 

[Midwest]

I think it does help as the op is looking to go back to the builder. If there is no Reg break then he cannot do that.

essex you've made you point, why do want to keep making it?

Us house bashers have nothing in our vans besides crisp packets mucky dees waste, and twin & earth cable.

 

[Ian1981]

I think it does help as the op is looking to go back to the builder. If there is no Reg break then he cannot do that.

There is a regulation break.
411.3.1.1.
Regardless if the light is class 2, the protective measure double or reinforced insulation can’t be used on a domestic installation.(yes by nature the light doesn’t require a connection to earth).
By the nature of the light fitting being class 2,it’s not inherently dangerous at the moment but it does not comply

 

[Midwest]

Ohh God, this ones going to go on & on, no offence Ian & essex.

 

[Nigel]

Hi - if I've understood correctly, you've asked does BS7671 specify a cpc shall be run with a circuit (?). If so, referring to Reg 543.6.1, I think that is a yes in this case.

Would you use an OCPD for fault protection on a cable?

 

[Ian1981]

Ohh God, this ones going to go on & on, no offence Ian & essex.

No Midwest I’m not getting into a heated debate, this is mearly my interpretation of the requirements.
I’ve put my views across I can’t say anymore than that my friend

 

[Nigel]

essex you've made you point, why do want to keep making it?

Us house bashers have nothing in our vans besides crisp packets mucky dees waste, and twin & earth cable.

I am not sure why you are getting so upset. I was enjoying the debate but I will leave it if you would prefer. I would not want anyome thinking this is a forum for debating or anything like that.