New Inspection and testing qualifications !?

[ackbarthestar]

Now, as I understand things, the I&T qualifications are going to be revamped for 22nd century working methods....

2392 level 2 in initial inspection and testing. This is staying the same.

2393 level 3 in understanding how the approved documents fit in with the electrical requirements. This is staying the same

now
2391-10 periodic inspections including all types of installations will now become:

2394 periodic inspections and tests of initial inspections and testing of new installations

2395 periodic inspections of everything else

2391-20 converted from 2400 Electrical Design and certification will now become 2396

So my question could be:

What is the difference between 2392 and 2394 ?
My understanding might be that you could be called upon to do 3rd party inspections on non-registered sparks for which you would need a 2394 cert. and that the 2392 would be only a preparatory course to prepare somebody for the 2394

Is it possible to perform a periodic /EICR on a new installation?

 

[jimmymac]

Hi ackbar,
this is the first i've heard of this, i knew it's due to be changed soon but i didn't know it was gonna be broken down like that, where did you get this info??

 

[Richard Burns]

So my question could be:

What is the difference between 2392 and 2394 ?
My understanding might be that you could be called upon to do 3rd party inspections on non-registered sparks for which you would need a 2394 cert. and that the 2392 would be only a preparatory course to prepare somebody for the 2394

Is it possible to perform a periodic /EICR on a new installation?

I have seen this breakdown on the forum and cannot quite follow it either
Currently you have:
2392 - initial verification
2391-10 - periodic inspection
2391-20 - design

Will next have:
2394 - initial verification
2395 - periodic inspection
2396 - design

Why are these not straight swaps? why is 2391-10 now equivalent to 2394 and 2395.
You can do an EICR on a new installation, it is one way of inspecting a new installation where the installer is not available but it needs BC approval. Not ideal but not totally wrong.

 

[Spazz]

The college that I have booked on to do my 17th Edition has stopped taking bookings and payments for the Inspect and Test because of this.

The course is being broken into 2 parts - as said above.

Its all a money making scheme - 2 exam papers issued - 2 sets of charges for C&G.
2 courses - 2 sets of fees for the colleges

Some colleges are looking at doing both courses in 1 combined course as you cant do anything with just 1 of these courses - you need both to register with NAPIT and NICEIC.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Hi ackbar,
this is the first i've heard of this, i knew it's due to be changed soon but i didn't know it was gonna be broken down like that, where did you get this info??

Its info picked up from various sources but also in a trade mag. electricaltimes

I personally cannot see the need for both 2392 and 2394 since they are basically the same course....

Unless, 2392 covers the basic 17th ed. requirements for R1+R2, IR, psc/pfc, EFLT, RCD and 2394 covers other areas as well such as TT electrode tests, 3-phase, RCMs and IMDs, leakage and clamp measurements, verification of MPB, SPB as well as verification of results using desk-based methods

 

[jimmymac]

Sounds like a money earner for them if you ask me, i'm all for progression and moving with the times but it's getting harder and more expensive every year. Still, if you've already got your 2391 i don't suppose it matters

 

[Dave-Titan]

sounds like doing my 2391 last year was a good idea

 

[SPARTYKUS]

sounds like doing my 2391 last year was a good idea

Uep got mine. And its on the wall....forever!

 

[SPARTYKUS]

The college that I have booked on to do my 17th Edition has stopped taking bookings and payments for the Inspect and Test because of this.

The course is being broken into 2 parts - as said above.

Its all a money making scheme - 2 exam papers issued - 2 sets of charges for C&G.
2 courses - 2 sets of fees for the colleges

Some colleges are looking at doing both courses in 1 combined course as you cant do anything with just 1 of these courses - you need both to register with NAPIT and NICEIC.

Really?? I know NAPIT ask you to have or try & get 2391 but never heard that with NIC. In fact quite the opposite, theyre not bothered.

 

[Dave-Titan]

ooo i never thought to put it on the wall or even get it framed lol. good call!

 

[SPARTYKUS]

ooo i never thought to put it on the wall or even get it framed lol. good call!

I'm 43, baldy and a bit overweight, ugly and a Dad and I'm not too proud to say I shed a tear when that cert came through the door.

Get it on the wall!

 

[Spazz]

NICEIC told me I had to have mine within 12 months same as NAPIT, because I phoned around them all.

The college messed me around because I booked and paid for all the courses (Pat, 17th Edition, Inspect and Test) and they refunded me my inspect test as they dont know whats happening as yet, they told me to contact them at the end of February in time for the 8th March course.


If there is ways for me not to do these I would be very happy!

 

[ackbarthestar]

I'd considered getting my 2391 cert. screen printed onto material and have a pair of trousers made so that I would s$£% myself every time my assessor turned up on site - but then that would be silly wouldn't it ? :wacko:

 

[hillbillie]

The new 2396 is not exactly a straight swap for the 2391-20 as it will be a level 4 course. I assume it will cover more than the old, level 3, 2391-20.

2396 sounds interesting, I'm keen to do it.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Agreed, I think the 2396, as a level 4 qualification, will take it more into building services design which makes it of interest. I think I would need to see the syllabus and some feedback from the new intake of students to see whether or not it lives up to expectation.

 

[oldtimer]

"Change for the 22nd century" No let get this clear it is change for the sake of change just when you think yep done the courses got the books thank goodness thats one hurdle to get over.

But Wait no dont get settled because we the scheme providors are going to change it all why ?because it keeps them in a job and we will call it progress but in reality you lot are really are just a bunch of junkies waiting for the new type of smack to come out so that we say can look I have 2651/1 and now its broken up into 4 new parts thats means more courses and books that we can sell to the junkies err i mean these fine fellow electricians and dont worry about the current economic climate because we wont we will just find new ways to tell you well you thought you were qualified but you need to prove yourself to a guy who technically could not put a nut in a monkeys mouth

 

[ackbarthestar]

I suspect that following government guideline of 50% at university standard and regarding the necessity to prove that our educational system is better than others there is a permanent itch to fulfill this quota.
'Its not a good idea to have a country trained only to craft level with no ability to research and develop academic skills.'
That would mean that we were sub-standard, even a 3rd world country, compared with our European counterparts.
I'm yet to be convinced that 2396 is equivalent to HND....:devil2::devil2:

 

[oldtimer]

Qualifications are fine and I have done them to keep up with current trends and this is not a moan our trade is now a joke and it is getting run/managed by interested parties who are only in my view are self interested quite simpley they need to clean their act up why because yep qulifications are great but over the past 36 years I have worked with some realy switched on guys but some of them I would not let them fit a plug top in my house for me now this is wrong because we are producing people who are basically proffesional students who yes are getting the qualifications but cannot apply the theory to the actual job.

I forgot to add is just when we seem to be getting on top of guidlines and regulations they go and change them for the sake of change I have no problem with them updating or tweaking via amendments but do we realy have to reinvent the wheel every couple of years and the only thing that is constant is 230vac and 50Hz plus red to red black to black or brown to brown and blue to blue and any two is a pair

 

[ackbarthestar]

Lol,

“We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.”

Attributed to Petronius a Roman and a scholar of dubious nature but still stands good for today...... I can't understand how or why with so many 'qualifications' to our nation's credit that nobody seems to remember this one.

 

[Engineer54]

''the only thing that is constant is 230vac and 50Hz''


Not quite, it's 240 volts, the 230 volts is only a ''let's make believe voltage'' !! Which pretty much sums up the very gist of your post, ie, change for the sake of change, rather than only when it's actually needed!! lol!!!