Discuss new installtion (bonding) in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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1/ ive bonded the incoming gas (copper) to the boiler water pipes ..(.the boiler is fed directly from the c/unit..on ..2.5mm.to a fused spur outlet.).however do i need to extend the bonding using 10mm the earth strip in the electrical meter box?
2/ in the kitchen there are 3 metal stays spanning the ceiling....to provide additional support to the ceiling/walls,,,,they are in turn bolted to some upright boxed steel to the foundations of the building....the upright sections have been plaster boarded over.....how can i bond these? do i need to? all ccts are rcd protected.
this job is for my nicie:frown2:c assessment..any advice gratefully received.
 
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Deleted member 9648

An incoming copper gas service is likely to be an extraneous conductive part and will need main bonding back to the MET....not supplementary bonding to heating pipes.
The steel should be tested to establish whether it is an ECP and if it is a suitable location will have to be found for it to be main bonded.
I would suggest you study bonding requirements and principles before your assessment, as it is apparent from the first question that your understanding is limited.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
in the past weve linked inside the gas meter box...but now advised were allowed no connections within this area..and yes we need bonding between the water to the boiler also..which ive done. many thanks.
 
N

nickblake

Funny isnt it over here the gas safe are insisting that these connections are made at the meter , not inside the building , regs state inside the building ,so i go with the regs , bonding should be connected with 600mm of the incomming service ,
 
in the past weve linked inside the gas meter box...but now advised were allowed no connections within this area..and yes we need bonding between the water to the boiler also..which ive done. many thanks.
I can only assume you are working to either the gas regulations or in adherence of the Manufacturers Instructions of the boiler, why else are you supplementary cross bonding the pipes, when you should be bonding the main incoming supplies, if they are Extraneous Conductive parts
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
nah the gas feed to gas meter is plastic..... its copper from meter to boiler....gas safe engineer just needed to see bonding between the copper section and the boiler water pipes...,but insisted no connections to the gas pipe were to be made inside the meter box!!!
now hes gone im hooking up in there...the boiler is miles from the c/unit..and met otherwise.,
 
Have a read on things son .......... in OUR regs.

Start with 415.2 concerning supplementary equipotential bonding and then direct yourself to 701.415.2 which I know is for locations containing a bath or shower but if you can

1) ascertain that those pipes are Extraneous conductive parts, and that is easy IR test pipes back to main MET via a wander lead and if over 23Kohm they are not

2) If they are and you satisfy sections (iv) (v) and (vi) in the 701 reg, which the RCD will do (iv) and (v), then you just need to make sure (vi) is in place

So what have you actually got.

By the way ask the gas plumber for a copy of his DEGREE if he is handy at giving out electrical advice
 

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The title of the thread is new installation therefore distance to consumer unit and MET is totally irrelevant.
 

Jimmy Boy

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Arms
Since when does a pipe man tell us/you on the requirements of 7671 ? Does you/he actually understand what an Extraneous conductive part is ? ( Page 28 of the BGB ),do you know why you are bonding ? and for what purpose? How is a plastic fed pipe going to fit in to the 'Extraneous' tick box ?
J
 
E

Engineer54

How is a plastic fed pipe going to fit in to the 'Extraneous' tick box ?
Don't make assumptions based solely on the main gas and water feed pipes into a building being plastic, so No bonding being required!!

Your probably right in this particular instance, but you can't make this a standard ruling. Take for instance a concrete frame multi-story building where the internal gas or water supply pipes, are copper, or Galv steel, or some other metallic material. They could be buried into the fabric of the building, in contact with, or fixed to other extraneous metalwork, the list is endless. You need to ''Always'' test first, then make your assessment as to whether or not service pipes etc require bonding back to the MET or not.
 
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Jimmy Boy

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Arms
54 I was asking the OP exactly that question lol was it an assumption on his part that it needed bonding or not.
J
 
Don't make assumptions based solely on the main gas and water feed pipes into a building being plastic, so No bonding being required!!

Your probably right in this particular instance, but you can't make this a standard ruling. Take for instance a concrete frame multi-story building where the internal gas or water supply pipes, are copper, or Galv steel, or some other metallic material. They could be buried into the fabric of the building, in contact with, or fixed to other extraneous metalwork, the list is endless. You need to ''Always'' test first, then make your assessment as to whether or not service pipes etc require bonding back to the MET or not.
I absolutely disagree with this-the fact that the structural steel etc. may meet the definition of an extraneous-conductive part does not mean that anything fixed or coming into contact with it then meets this definition.
If the structural steel (likely) does meet the definition of an extraneous-conductive part then main protective bonding must be installed to that structural streel.

Think about it-by that argument, anything conductive fixed to the steel structure etc. would require main protective bonding!
 
E

Engineer54

I absolutely disagree with this-the fact that the structural steel etc. may meet the definition of an extraneous-conductive part does not mean that anything fixed or coming into contact with it then meets this definition.
If the structural steel (likely) does meet the definition of an extraneous-conductive part then main protective bonding must be installed to that structural streel.

Think about it-by that argument, anything conductive fixed to the steel structure etc. would require main protective bonding!
You obviously haven't had much experience in concrete framed and floored buildings then... So according to you, we just ignore any metalwork that has, or can give a potential in a building where people either live and/or work??

No-ones talking about exposed structural steelwork here, this could be steelwork fixed to the building fabric, Depending on whether the steelwork or other services are in contact with the buildings reinforcement, directly ''or otherwise'' would cause any of that steelwork or the service pipes to be extraneous!! How many such buildings have had the re-bar taken out to be bonded, not many i would hazard a guess. That unconnected but very much earthed Ufer grounding that will be present throughout the whole building via the tied re-bar and anything that is also connected to the re-bar , could be at a far lower ohmic value than either, or both the services combined, ....Or would you want to disagree with that too??

I have heard you scoff at stairwell metal railings not being extraneous, but i would bet in more than 90+% of cases in a concrete framed/floored building they would be well, well under your 23K ohms...

As for your last point, the services of such a building could have well been bonded previously. Then the service provider(s) comes along and replaces said service with a plastic incoming supply! According to you, no need to bond the remaining exisiting metallic pipework?? Go to any decent sized older concrete framed/floored building that has a modern plastic water and or gas incoming supply and do an IR test. I can practically guarantee you'll see very low ohmic values, Hell we get to see them on our project buildings (All the common services are plastic) before the Ufers are permanently connected up to the system...
 
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