new installtion (bonding)

[Engineer54]

Oh do grow up man, childish sarcasm to prop up my argument? Using the scenario of an installation on the moon? Might it have been humour? Lighten up and stop taking yourself so seriously!

Me grow up?? ...Who started this whole fiasco, and why??

Might it have been humour?? ...I don't know what you call humour, but that wasn't your intention in this case. Sorry, but i do take myself very seriously when called to professionally defend myself. That's not being egotistic as you would imply either, but rather professional integrity...

Using the scenario of an installation on the moon? ...I really don't know where you have been living and working all these years, i really don't. Such building construction, was and still is to a great extent, the staple building construction type for low rise office and residential blocks (among others)!!! The fact that you may not have much experience of them is neither here nor there!! Maybe these day's the water services as well as most other internal pipework is now installed in PVC or the like, but there are plenty where virtually ALL the internal pipework was metal of one type or another. ...Literary thousands upon thousands upon thousands of them in fact!!!

With relevance to this thread and the original question, as has been mentioned above (not by me) what I wrote was 100% correct!

But you weren't responding or replying to the original question were you?? You were replying to my post, questioning the need to bond services that had been supplied via plastic incomers. In that respect your 100% Wrong, but still won't/can't admit it....

Now jog on and let's agree to differ-the strength of this forum is the broad experience of many members from the domestic-only electrician to the likes of you and the larger projects and everyone in between. As Malcolm said, there isn't a one size fits all solution.....

You can jog on ...(another bit of humour??) Perhaps you will do well to remember that one size doesn't fit all. Perhaps then, this fiasco wouldn't have even been started...

And on that note, i hope this is an end to all this nonsense.
At least the OP did get the guidance he was asking for, despite the unnecessary high jacking, apologies for which on my part...

 

[marcusone]

Probably one of the most enjoyable threads I have read for a good while. Nice one gents. Heated but interesting.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[La Poste]

I agree very enjoyable.

If there's one thing I will take from this thread it will be: Always test.

 

[CLB]

Funny isnt it over here the gas safe are insisting that these connections are made at the meter , not inside the building , regs state inside the building ,so i go with the regs , bonding should be connected with 600mm of the incomming service ,

The regs also state "...as near as practically possible".
If it is uneconomical to dig up the floor so you can get within 600mm of the incoming gas supply (read: the customer refuses to pay for it), then as near as possible is acceptable. It's down to individual choice as to what is practically possible and for many sparkies, if the CU is located in the same broom closet as the boiler (as in our house) that's where the gas pipes are going to be bonded as I've no intention of digging up a concrete floor from the closet to the front door to run a single piece of 10mm earth wire.

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Interesting ? I have gone through eight boxes of Pop Corn and a tray of Stella reading this lmao

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The regs also state "...as near as practically possible".
If it is uneconomical to dig up the floor so you can get within 600mm of the incoming gas supply (read: the customer refuses to pay for it), then as near as possible is acceptable. It's down to individual choice as to what is practically possible and for many sparkies, if the CU is located in the same broom closet as the boiler (as in our house) that's where the gas pipes are going to be bonded as I've no intention of digging up a concrete floor from the closet to the front door to run a single piece of 10mm earth wire.

Well you'd be wrong....just because you cant be bothered to get a wire to the correct place doesnt make it impractical.

 

[CLB]

Well you'd be wrong....just because you cant be bothered to get a wire to the correct place doesnt make it impractical.

Wrong? Not according to the regs. It would be very impracticable to get a wooden floor fitter to lift our expensive parquet flooring, then hire a kango to dig a trench 15 metres to the front door (ensuring I don't actually hit the gas main in the process), and then have to do the whole thing in reverse to put the house back in order.
The Regs say what it prefers to be done and how, but it also leaves room for those situations where it is entirely impracticable to follow the regs to the absolute letter, hence the inclusion of the phrase '..or where practicably possible."
English is a great language when one understands it.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Wrong? Not according to the regs. It would be very impracticable to get a wooden floor fitter to lift our expensive parquet flooring, then hire a kango to dig a trench 15 metres to the front door (ensuring I don't actually hit the gas main in the process), and then have to do the whole thing in reverse to put the house back in order.
The Regs say what it prefers to be done and how, but it also leaves room for those situations where it is entirely impracticable to follow the regs to the absolute letter, hence the inclusion of the phrase '..or where practicably possible."
English is a great language when one understands it.

The reason I posted is that I see incorrectly located main bonding almost every week .I cant remember one single instance in 30 odd years where the only possible way to a domestic gas meter is by digging up a concrete floor, that said I accept that in the case of a gas pipe...(likely to be soldered copper throughout)...the bonding could in practice be located anywhere and still be effective,thats not an excuse for laziness though. In the case of a water service it IS likely that an incorrectly located bond will NOT be effective in it's purpose. I saw one last week,a shower circuit run into a loft and the 10mm main bond run up and dobbed on the rising main at the cold cistern in the roof.....Totally ineffective as there was a plastic insert under the bath,resulting in an incoming ECP not bonded.
Thats why posts like yours can mislead the uninitiated reading this forum.

 

[CLB]

The reason I posted is that I see incorrectly located main bonding almost every week .I cant remember one single instance in 30 odd years where the only possible way to a domestic gas meter is by digging up a concrete floor, that said I accept that in the case of a gas pipe...(likely to be soldered copper throughout)...the bonding could in practice be located anywhere and still be effective,thats not an excuse for laziness though. In the case of a water service it IS likely that an incorrectly located bond will NOT be effective in it's purpose. I saw one last week,a shower circuit run into a loft and the 10mm main bond run up and dobbed on the rising main at the cold cistern in the roof.....Totally ineffective as there was a plastic insert under the bath,resulting in an incoming ECP not bonded.
Thats why posts like yours can mislead the uninitiated reading this forum.

I do get where you're coming from, and the Regs can be deliberately vague in some instances which leads me to believe that the Regs were written by group of time served engineers as opposed to a bunch of desk jockeys somewhere in a darkened room whose sole purpose in life is to concoct ways of making our lives more difficult. They *knew* the problems engineers face out there and tried to be as liberal as they could. Practicable can mean any number of things - it could be whether it's possible to actually do it, or financially unviable to do it, or even if a client stubbornly refuses to allow it.
I'd have a hard time convincing a client that expensive work needed to doing just to get a 10mm wire to the incoming gas supply and I fancy they'll go to another electrician who'll reassure them they don't have to, but with water pipes - where there are a lot more outlets in a house than gas - it'd be relatively easy to convince someone into making sure they get it bonded correctly.
In the instance of our house, the gas pipe branches off once before it gets to the boiler room and that's to a service pipe for a gas fire, which we don't use and had decommissioned and capped off a few years ago. From the boiler room it travels onto the kitchen so I made the decision that bonding it in the boiler room was the most practicable option.

 

[Spudnik]

The reason I posted is that I see incorrectly located main bonding almost every week .I cant remember one single instance in 30 odd years where the only possible way to a domestic gas meter is by digging up a concrete floor, that said I accept that in the case of a gas pipe...(likely to be soldered copper throughout)...the bonding could in practice be located anywhere and still be effective,thats not an excuse for laziness though. In the case of a water service it IS likely that an incorrectly located bond will NOT be effective in it's purpose. I saw one last week,a shower circuit run into a loft and the 10mm main bond run up and dobbed on the rising main at the cold cistern in the roof.....Totally ineffective as there was a plastic insert under the bath,resulting in an incoming ECP not bonded.
Thats why posts like yours can mislead the uninitiated reading this forum.

And this is where testing first should always be done.

 

[somersetsparks]

The reason I posted is that I see incorrectly located main bonding almost every week .I cant remember one single instance in 30 odd years where the only possible way to a domestic gas meter is by digging up a concrete floor, that said I accept that in the case of a gas pipe...(likely to be soldered copper throughout)...the bonding could in practice be located anywhere and still be effective,thats not an excuse for laziness though. In the case of a water service it IS likely that an incorrectly located bond will NOT be effective in it's purpose. I saw one last week,a shower circuit run into a loft and the 10mm main bond run up and dobbed on the rising main at the cold cistern in the roof.....Totally ineffective as there was a plastic insert under the bath,resulting in an incoming ECP not bonded.
Thats why posts like yours can mislead the uninitiated reading this forum.

On an I&T a couple weeks ago, I found no bonding to the gas (the old phantom bond : read 2 'poking under the floor boards from DB) I ran a new bond into the loft as the gas pipe ran up the back wall and into the eaves before crossing the loft, I bonded near the loft hatch, 9' away from where it entered the building, as it was far easier for inspection then rolling back all the lagging, I then left a note on fuseboard for the next inspector.
Some people assume its ok to use 1x 10mm and bond water and gas under the boiler even if it is miles from the origin of the pipework!

 

[Jimmy Boy]

I had one the other day no bond to gas on entry to building, luckily there was a large trunking I could use, the gas boundry box was on the outside of kitchen ,on the other you have guessed it base units,it disappeared behind the units, in to a box and exited on the surface some two Mtrs from point of entry, that's where I bonded it, a connection must be accessible for inspection and testing, preferably visible, there was no way I was going to rip the arse out the kitchen and hide it in some obscure position...That is my definition of 'Practicable'
J

 

[Guitarist]

As my Elecsa assessor said to me (something along these lines)... "Better to have good bonding a little further from the point of entry, than have the customer refuse to have it at all."

 

[Deleted member 9648]

As my Elecsa assessor said to me (something along these lines)... "Better to have good bonding a little further from the point of entry, than have the customer refuse to have it at all."

Yep....but it has to be "Good".......At the point of entry it dont matter how many plastic inserts there are beyond that.....but further up the line somewhere,and a break in continuity between the connection and the point of entry and the whole point of bonding is defeated.