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p11jor

Anyone heard about this new requirement that you need a level 3 qual to join a part p scheme from July 2011?

Surely this would wipe out alot of current members and new applicants?.......meaning more and more houses are not going to be signed off under part p, as I doubt many sparks are going to down tools for a couple of years and get a evening job stacking shelves whilst they try to gain a qualification that says the can do what they have been doing for the past 10/20/30/40/50 years!

Anyone else have any info on this?
 
if you are a qualified spark, then you are at level 3. This is designed to weed out the self declared 'competent' person, and make sure they have some kind of qualification. They might only need the 17th edition which is a level 3 qual. Don't misunderstand the requirement to hold a level 3 qualification to mean the NVQ 3. Thats only ONE of the level 3 quals, as I sais, 2330 level 3, 17th, nVQ 3, 2391, etc..

This new rule won't affect hardly anyone, except joe blogs who feels competent, and wants to become a registered D I .
 
It is a rumour that has been put around a number of times, with no evidence to show that it is true.

Personally, I think it would be a good idea.
C+G 2391 is a Level 3, so maybe that ought to be a pre-requisite for self-certification?
NAPIT already need that iirc, or they give you a certain time to get it. The same could apply to everyone, do it in the next year or you are out. That's reasonable.

Alan.
 
I only have 2330 level 2, I don't call myself a spark as about half my work is electrical (other half is just general building, anything to pay the bills) but I do have my 17th and also a 2392. Would I still be ok for the scheme registration as 17th is level 3?
 
Yer I agree, 2391 is defo reasonable and even more reasonable to get 12 months to get it! As long as there is a few exam dates spread out through that 12 months for resits as the pass rate is very low!
 
hAVE A READ OF THIS.

The industry bodies represented on the EAS Management Committee have agreed the requirements for new Qualified Supervisors that will be introduced in January 2012.
On January 1st, Level 3 NVQ Certificate in Installing, Testing and Ensuring Compliance of Electrical Installation Work in Dwellings will be the minimum qualification level for Qualified Supervisors responsible for electrical work carried out in domestic properties which comes under Part P of the Building Regulations (for England and Wales).

The minimum requirement for Qualified Supervisors that are responsible for all types of electrical installation will be the new Level 3 NVQ Diploma in Installing Electrotechnical Systems and Equipment (Building and Structures).

Individuals who already have a competency-based qualification recognised by the EAS Management Committee will not have to take the new qualification if they are applying to become a new Qualified Supervisor after 1st January 2012.

An electrotechnical NVQ Level 3 will become the industry recognised standard for electrical work in the UK. There are a number of routes to achieve this standard. This is a move towards safer, better practice in the UK electrical installation industry.

What about practising Qualified Supervisors appointed pre-January 2012?

The requirement only applies to all new applications for Qualified Supervisors after 1st January 2012, and it will not affect those who are currently holders of the post, or new Qualifying Supervisors appointed before 1st January 2012.

What about past holders of the Qualified Supervisor role (not currently responsible)?

If you have been a registered Qualified Supervisor within the last two years for an employer,
you will be eligible to be nominated as a Qualified Supervisor for a new employer.

About the EAS Management Committee

This decision was passed by the industry’s Electrotechnical Assessment Specification (EAS) Management Committee, which is the national Committee of the Institute of Engineering and Technology (IET) responsible for determining the minimum technical standards to which
companies in the electrotechnical industry are assessed.

The Committee is formed of representatives from organisations across the industry.
 
So it's jan now?

I have 2330 lev2
2382
2392

I have a assesment booked in for Thursday with niceic but cancelling to join napit which I am applying for tomorow

I am intending to do my 2391 before Xmas so if I am a napit member in the next month then I will never have to do these extra requirements? As long as I am with napit for two years then if I go abroad for a few years etc I can use this 2 years I will get from napit to never have to do this? Is this right?
 
You aren't trying to be a qualified supervisor, you are trying to be a domestic installer. QSs are the guys who can sign off the work from their whole firm, rather than just their own work.
 
You aren't trying to be a qualified supervisor, you are trying to be a domestic installer. QSs are the guys who can sign off the work from their whole firm, rather than just their own work.

You are still termed a Qualified Supervisor even as a domestic installer, don't forget that a domestic installer can still employ 20 electricians!

Here's a passage from NICEIC Domestic Installer requirements:

Site Assessment
The site assessment will normally last half a day. It is a very important you are fully prepared to enable the visit to go as smoothly as possible. Your company representative (Qualified Supervisor) will be expected to ensure access to each installation and to accompany our assessor throughout the assessment visit. Please contact us without delay if the proposed date in inconvenient. Late cancellations of a booked assessment are likely to incur an additional fee.
 
Mmmm I dunno! I guess I will find out tomorow when I give napit a call......and i should be a member of them before this all kicks off.....if im not I would be very worried and perhaps the few years back in collage would do me the world of good!!
 
Mmmm I dunno! I guess I will find out tomorow when I give napit a call......and i should be a member of them before this all kicks off.....if im not I would be very worried and perhaps the few years back in collage would do me the world of good!!

Right from proposal, it was always made clear that this new requirement was not retrospective, it was only for new applications made after the introduction of the requirement.

I think if we're all honest about it, it's about time the QS requirements were tightened up, it can only increase standards.

I'd go for 2391-10 as a minimum if it were my choice, it's testing & inspecting that is the final part of an installation prior to energising so surely that's the most important in preventing dangerous situations and poor installation methods?
 
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for sure for sure


the 2391 is not really a difficult exam but does require better knowledge which in my opinion (in most cases) is enough to prove competence and should be the minimum requirement for entry onto any scheme.
 
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This has been done far too many times on here.

I've looked into it deeply. Its basically a scaremongering tactic from people with NVQ3 for those who haven't or can't get it!

With my scheme its a minimum of 'level 3' anyway. Thats Level 3 not NVQ3. Either 2330 Level 3, 2360 level 3 or NVQ3. You must have that and 17th edition minimum to be on full scope....Then you must atain 2391 within 12 months or already have it!

I think what the industry is really trying to get at is that you must be to level 3 standard.

The real issue is the 2391 cert. How can you be able to sign work off if you are not 2391. Testing is the safety of all electrical work. This is what needs to be looked at not installation competency I.e NVQ3
 
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The real issue is the 2391 cert. How can you be able to sign work off if you are not 2391. Testing is the safety of all electrical work. This is what needs to be looked at not installation competency I.e NVQ3

I do not have me 2391. I complete my 5 year apprenticeship in 1995. Over the past 16 years I have been involved in a lot of industrial and commercial projects ranging into £100k's. I was a contracts manager and QS for a large NIC contractor with about 20 JIB sparks under me. Because I have not done my 2391, would you say I am not able to be a DI.

You say testing is the safety of all electrical work. I reckon your miles off, design and installation is the safety of electrical work. Plugging a MFT into a circuit and writing down the numbers isn't going to tell you if the installation has been done correctly.

I agree there should be some industry minimum, but don't say because I do not have my 2391 I shouldn't be able to sign work off!!
 
I do not have me 2391. I complete my 5 year apprenticeship in 1995. Over the past 16 years I have been involved in a lot of industrial and commercial projects ranging into £100k's. I was a contracts manager and QS for a large NIC contractor with about 20 JIB sparks under me. Because I have not done my 2391, would you say I am not able to be a DI.

You say testing is the safety of all electrical work. I reckon your miles off, design and installation is the safety of electrical work. Plugging a MFT into a circuit and writing down the numbers isn't going to tell you if the installation has been done correctly.

I agree there should be some industry minimum, but don't say because I do not have my 2391 I shouldn't be able to sign work off!!

I take your point regarding design and installation but what is the final backstop before an installation is put into service?

Inspection and testing.

Don't forget the inspection bit, it's not just about 'plugging in an MFT', initial verification is intended to confirm that the installation complies with the design and has been designed and constructed in accordance with BS7671:2008.

You can have the best design in the world but if the installer can't interpret it and the inspector isn't competent, where does that leave your design?

I still believe 2391-10 should be a minimum for a QS for these reasons.
 
I take your point regarding design and installation but what is the final backstop before an installation is put into service?

Inspection and testing.

Don't forget the inspection bit, it's not just about 'plugging in an MFT', initial verification is intended to confirm that the installation complies with the design and has been designed and constructed in accordance with BS7671:2008.

You can have the best design in the world but if the installer can't interpret it and the inspector isn't competent, where does that leave your design?

I still believe 2391-10 should be a minimum for a QS for these reasons.


I don't disagree with anything you have said here. Design, installation, inspection and testing all plays an equally vital role. It just winds me up a little when someone say's "How can I be competant to sign off work" if I do not have my 2391.
 
Well it's the same as the JIB saying to lots of lads you aren't a electrician until you have nvq3. It works both ways. Until you have the 2391-10 you ain't a competent full scope spark in napits eyes
 
The most criminal attitude is the Niceic Qualifying supervisor system being adopted for domestic installation, where any muppet can install as long as the entity is registered
It can be justified in large installations but not domestic

Individual competence is the key
The 2391 is an excellent objective for all to attain, but for initial verification of an installation that has been installed by a qualifed spark,no, I dont believe it should be a requirement

Pirs are another issue where the 2391 is I believe very desirable,or at least should be
Its the QS system that needs addressing not the competence of qualified trained sparks
Your training should prepare you sufficiently to test and inspect your own work
 

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