Discuss no earth at board in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net

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palmerelectrcal

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can anyone explain why and how there is no incoming earth at the board. its a victorian terrace the distributors feed from u/g up the outside of the property,:rockstar:
through the loft to the ist floor landing. into a connecting block .the line is fed into a 60a fuse block...the two tails into the supply meter..
earth bonding to the c/u via th i/c gas and water pipes...provide an earth with a Ze 11ohms..i need to correct this...advice?
 
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Plonker 3

Sounds like you either need to TT the installation or contact the DNO and find out if a PME is available and get them to fit it for you.

Is the installation RCD protected? If not I would get one fitted ASAP. Even if it is just temporary, until you get the main earth fitted.
 

oldtimer

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This is not a pop but you infact anybody putting in a post should give as much info as possible ok so why no earth well in my case I live in Edinburgh where some older houses were getting what I call a shared or borrowed earth ie through the water and gas pipes from next door through their earth bonding until the pipes are changed to plastic I have even seen a 20 year old RCD board where their was no DNO earth as the spark who installed it could not be bothered to progress it. DNOs dont help as I have seen new service heads but they have refused to connect the earth tail from the board telling the owner to get an electrician to look at it
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
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Woking
Homes with "no earth" are very common around my way. They rely on the gas or water for the earth!

So yes you need to install a rod or two, as depending on the gas or water is not in the rules these days.
 

Guitarist

Regular EF Member
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5,250
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As Dillb says, find out if the DNO will install a PME for you free of charge. Makes life much easier for you, and safer for the customer, if they will.
 

snowhead

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If you stepped back 45 years or so, the question would be, why have the DNO bothered to bring an earth in, the lead /copper water pipe is more than adequate.

It's only since MDPE (plastic) water pipes have been used for incoming water supplies that there has been a need for a DNO supplied earth.

No earth was common all over the country.

.
 

Amp David

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can anyone explain why and how there is no incoming earth at the board. its a victorian terrace the distributors feed from u/g up the outside of the property,:rockstar:
through the loft to the ist floor landing. into a connecting block .the line is fed into a 60a fuse block...the two tails into the supply meter..
earth bonding to the c/u via th i/c gas and water pipes...provide an earth with a Ze 11ohms..i need to correct this...advice?
What area of the country are you in?
 

oldtimer

Regular EF Member
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4,313
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Edinburgh
What area of the country are you in?
Yep more info
Location rural or city
Ze = ????
Ze with gas water connected
PFC
PSSC
type of DB and protection ie Wylex type b circuit breaker

As I said this is not having a pop at any individual but even Inspector Morse could not solve this and yes I bang on about standards but if you want to learn then get disciplined if not then you are either wasting your time or you will never be a spark
 
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palmerelectrcal

Regular EF Member
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i didnt include in my orig. post the type of breaker as t wasnt relevant to my enquiry.......however i did include the Ze figure (11 ohms) as a result of the bonding to the incoming services..(both water and gas ).. snowhead and others adequately answered my q.. providing me with enough info to proceed. i will be requesting the dno to provide a satisfactoty earth. save me smashing stakes into the gas main.:the installation has rcds offering some protection.
as for discipline thats my 2nd name....otherwise i wouldnt be seeking advice from professionals...which beleive it or not i am...
 
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Plonker 3

How do you get the Ze if there is no main earth? You have to measure that with all parallel paths removed which main bonding conductors are.
 
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palmerelectrcal

Regular EF Member
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understood...ok the figure was read to determine what sort of earth impedance was being obtained...via the ic service pipes...
 
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Plonker 3

Have you installed a rod or applied for a PME yet?

Or anything to help improve the safety of the installation?
 
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palmerelectrcal

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no as ill b contacting dno (tue am) i wont be banging spikes in the ground.##
as for inspector morse he dats back further than 2 pin plugs...so the post replyer is probably right...he wouldnt b able to solve this one...anyway he wasnt a real teccy...lol think h was an actor.
 
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palmerelectrcal

Regular EF Member
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both rcds operate within the reqd time parametrs... and the bonding to the i/c water gas ...etc all in place.
 

oldtimer

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no as ill b contacting dno (tue am) i wont be banging spikes in the ground.##
as for inspector morse he dats back further than 2 pin plugs...so the post replyer is probably right...he wouldnt b able to solve this one...anyway he wasnt a real teccy...lol think h was an actor.
Well thats worth a response as I said the more information the better ie you are in an urban area fine but we still need to know as I said it was not a pop thats just not my style but remember this is not about you , you have to remember that there are guys who a learning just like me who has the humility to admit this and these guys need to learn how to discipline themselves and how to gather and interpit information so I cannot help feeling that if you had supplied all the info it would have not been such a cryptic hunt plus I think the Inspector Morse analigie went over your head because if this was a police case well Miludd me thinks the wrong man went to jail for evidence with held so I rest my case. Mind it makes you wonder why you asked the question in the first place
 
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palmerelectrcal

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asked originally coz wasnt sure if this was a common situation..especially with older properties...but as it was explained to me this wasnt an unusal situation...then im happy to proceed....any probs ill communicate with morse code....ill update with test rsults etc during week....thanks to all who read/replied,
 
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palmerelectrcal

Regular EF Member
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pme provided....now we have eli of .16.....yehaa...and pssc 1.4ka efc...cant remember...but all good....
 

itselectric

Regular EF Member
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286
Location
durham
Surely it's been a regulation for over 40years that water and gas pipes cannot be relied on a protective earthing, and all houses with TT systems should be fitted with main R.C.D'S and a copper earth rod installed.
 
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