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Discuss Number of sparks in U.K in the Commercial Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

M

Marty48

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Hi everyone, does anybody know how many electricians there are in England , Scotland, Wales and Ireland? The minimum level is City and Guilds installation A. Not required to have part P or N.I.C registered etc.
Waddya think?:confused:
 
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S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
Hi everyone, does anybody know how many electricians there are in England , Scotland, Wales and Ireland? The minimum level is City and Guilds installation A. Not required to have part P or N.I.C registered etc.
Waddya think?:confused:
well whatever number you come up with, you can minus one from it because by your defenition i am not an 'electrician'

so thats only 25 years i have been 'winging' it for then

wonder what i am really:rolleyes:
 
W

wayne

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  • #3
well ive asked everybody at work and there are a lot "one qualification short of a certificate"
 
P

PAUL M

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  • #4
i dont know about nationwide but there must be at least 50 in my area alone.
 
M

Marty48

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  • #6
sorry shakey didnt mean to exclude anyone, how have you been "winging it" then. thought there had to be some form of qualification to work as spark. most proffesions seem to police themselves in this way. perhaps you have bs 7517 or similar? what does everyone else have?:(
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Oh my God don't get our old pal Shakey started!!!!!



:p
 
i'll finish this one, taken from this book "pratical guide to inspection, testing and certification of electrical installations" very decent book anyway, thought i'd quote the book title before i get told off. here :

"currently, there is no requirement for any person carrying out electrical work in a domestic environment to be quailfied in any way. The condition is that they must be competent; in other words, they must be in possession of appropriate technical knowledge or experience to enable them to carry out the work safely

There are Part p Courses being provided by many training bodies, although it is not a requirement that you attend one of these courses or any other course which is being offered. However, it is impossible to become an electrician in 5 days"


That ones for u shakey, so you don't bite sum1's head off, and my I need to get my post count up, cus cirrus is doubling me, although I could wack a zero on the end of mine :)

regards
 
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Cirrus

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  • #9
Cheating is not an option Luke and you don't want me to start deleting posts now do ya?
 
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wayne

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  • #10
excellent post luke ,what does the book say about commercial/industrial?
 
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Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
Quick, pass him the pills!!
 
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Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
i'll finish this one, taken from this book "pratical guide to inspection, testing and certification of electrical installations" very decent book anyway, thought i'd quote the book title before i get told off. here :

"currently, there is no requirement for any person carrying out electrical work in a domestic environment to be quailfied in any way. The condition is that they must be competent; in other words, they must be in possession of appropriate technical knowledge or experience to enable them to carry out the work safely

There are Part p Courses being provided by many training bodies, although it is not a requirement that you attend one of these courses or any other course which is being offered. However, it is impossible to become an electrician in 5 days"


That ones for u shakey, so you don't bite sum1's head off, and my I need to get my post count up, cus cirrus is doubling me, although I could wack a zero on the end of mine :)

regards
good quote Luke (I am familiar with the book)

and considering the domestic market is MORE regulated that commercial/industrial because of Part P, well.....I am sure you can work it out:p
 
M

Marty48

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
good quote Luke (I am familiar with the book)

and considering the domestic market is MORE regulated that commercial/industrial because of Part P, well.....I am sure you can work it out:p
Sorry guys but is there any ideas on the original question ?
not looking for exact number but educated guess will help.:confused:
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Sorry guys but is there any ideas on the original question ?
not looking for exact number but educated guess will help.:confused:
ok 25,000

no

i mean 50,000

who knows, and what context is the question being asked?

and why have you narrowed it down to such a particular question level ?

And what about people who are qualifeied but currently 'out of trade', i.e. unemployed, retired, pushing trolleys in tesco's car park

the question, as it was presented, is meaningless:eek:
 
M

Marty48

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  • #16
ok 25,000

no

i mean 50,000

who knows, and what context is the question being asked?

and why have you narrowed it down to such a particular question level ?

And what about people who are qualifeied but currently 'out of trade', i.e. unemployed, retired, pushing trolleys in tesco's car park

the question, as it was presented, is meaningless:eek:

Shakey i have a tool for stripping armored cable, a working prototype.
when i go and see the suits with the cash the 1st thing they ask is "what is your market size" I know not all sparks will buy it and i predict that it will be mainly bought by firms with 5+ workers or self employed who cant afford time off cos they just took a couple of fingers off with the stanley.

Again i thought that this site would be the best place to get the info as its for sparks, regardless of their level of qualifications . hope you can help:( the city and guilds lot will not give me any help
 
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W

wayne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
so in fact you require a clever, intelligent answer to the question .
asking how many sparks wont give you your market size, knowing how much swa terminations there is on a job (most commercial /industrial jobs use swa to a degree) will help .stand by for some witty answers
 
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sparkyork

ive got an offcut of 3 core 2.5mm swa in me garage

sorry just got the idea of the thread, you have a working prototype of a swa stripper tool, if youre off to see the dragons or somebody else then theyll also ask if you have intellectual rights to this etc? or if anybody else can go ahead and make one, to which you would have to respond with "you can buy a swa stripper tool, from any good wholesalers"

on the total number of sparks in the country thing, not sure how you could arrive at a realistic figure? (office of national statistics or..?) or like wayne said find out how much swa is been bought in the uk, compared with hacksaw blades?

all the best matey,
rich
 
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M

Marty48

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
so in fact you require a clever, intelligent answer to the question .
asking how many sparks wont give you your market size, knowing how much swa terminations there is on a job (most commercial /industrial jobs use swa to a degree) will help .stand by for some witty answers
sorry wayne but the number of sparks is the only way to assess the market place as they are the ones who will be buying it(hopefully). this tool is similar to a conduit bender in the number used, that is to say most firms have one, but there not used everyday. last job i had involved s.w.a cable every week (lighting grids) so i obviously would have bought this.
have spoken to bussiness advisors who repeatedly ask "how many" .doesnt mean they will all want one but its a start point.:(
 
S

sparkyork

id of thought there must be some way of finding out some info, but youre gonna need to have a minimum qualification level to base results from? which is a can of worms as not all sparkies have the same quals. have you tried google?!
how big is this tool, is it literally as big as a conduit bender?, like you say is it not just gonna be aimed at big firms and the odd self employed chap, rather than something that all sparks may wanna buy and pop in there tool bag?

rich
 
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wayne

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  • #21
sorry wayne but the number of sparks is the only way to assess the market place as they are the ones who will be buying it(hopefully). this tool is similar to a conduit bender in the number used, that is to say most firms have one, but there not used everyday. last job i had involved s.w.a cable every week (lighting grids) so i obviously would have bought this.
have spoken to bussiness advisors who repeatedly ask "how many" .doesnt mean they will all want one but its a start point.:(
and every sparks got a knife and hacksaw
 
M

Moog

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
If I was after the number of punters for your tool, I would look to electrical wholesalers. Anyone in the trade that would use your product would need to be registered with at least one materials reseller. You might even be able to convince them to quote the number of people who have order SWA.and also provide advertising for your product at the same time. I would also look in to who does so much SWA that they would pay for a new tool (yet to be proven safe), does the use of your tool mean a de-skilling of the fitter? This could be a selling point but might leave you open to being dragged into court and hence higher insurance costs. Are you willing to guarantee your product will A) never cut the wrong insulation B) work with all sizes and types of SWA
 
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spark-doctor

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Sorry to burst your bunnle Mr B but there are a couple of SWA strippers on the market allready. I use one allmost everyday and they are available from most wholesalers. I use the one fro Kew Technik.
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
. Anyone in the trade that would use your product would need to be registered with at least one materials reseller.
erm.....why?:confused:

Hi everyone, does anybody know how many electricians there are in England , Scotland, Wales and Ireland? The minimum level is City and Guilds installation A. Not required to have part P or N.I.C registered etc.
Waddya think?
Ok, now i know what context the question is asked in, you have really gone off kilter

You seem to be implying:-

A. The minimum qualification for stripping SWA is C&G installation A.

and

B. Part P or NIC registered people do not/cannot strip SWA

Fella, it seems the questions you need the answer to are:-

A. How many people install SWA in the UK

and

B. How many of those people would want to buy a dedicated stripper (that havent already bought a dedicated stripper)

Unfortunately, the questions you DID ask bare absolutely no relation to the ones you would NEED to ask:confused:

Something is tingling on the back of my neck as to why you think it is neccessary to narrow potential customers down to a certain qualification bandwidth????

I teach domestic installers, and teach them how to strip and prepare SWA, but you have excluded them from your potential market?

ah well, you are the business man, I guess you know what you are doing

good luck;)
 
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D

Dinosaur

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
Hi Guys and Gals,

Just a quicky - when i started in the electrical game the "sparks" was the sad sod that sat in a dark room all on his own sending messages in morse code!

Strange people they where as well. I was known as the "Lecky" and was responsible for everything from the generators on the ship to the captains wifes iron!

Four hours on - eight off for nine months at a time - plus stacks of overtime (unpaid) whilst in port.

Take my word for it the life of a domestic installer is soooooo easy. Who really cares how many "Lecky's" there are - the general public say there ain't enough and the tradesmen reckon there is too much competion! Does it really matter as long as we are all making a living?
 
hi mbarret, I see where your coming from, because your marketing this product at those who use SWA, AND electricians who don't use SWA but could potentially go into using SWA alot. Maybe you need the range of figures, of

how many electricians there is
how many use SWA
how SWA has increased/decreased in the last few years?
as for how many electricians there is, I wouldn't know where to start.
theres a website i came across which sed the shortage: came up with 36,000 across the uk. You could ask the registering bodies like niceic, napit etc, of how many they have.

Well I'll be the first to try it out, and show support to you matey, can send one over if you like ;)

whats the estimated cost? size? life of the product?

Regards,

Luke
 
M

Marty48

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27
thanks for the input gents,
the tool is hand held, 8" tall and weighs about 1kg. it cuts the outer insulation and steel strands on cable from 8mm to 50mm safely and accuratley as you control the depth of cut. unsure of cost but hope to be sub £50 mark. have found 4 other strippers for s w a ,the kew technik blade runner is the cheapest but is not in the same league and i would not buy one.
when trying to establish the market size it seemed logical to think that only electricians would work with s w a ,as insurance and regulations would prevent others from doing. another question i have to ask is does s w a get used elsewhere in the world? again this would reflect on market size and reduce the cost of the tool as its cheaper to make 100,000 than 1,000.
gonna try some of your suggestions and thanks for your thoughts
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #28
when trying to establish the market size it seemed logical to think that only electricians would work with s w a ,as insurance and regulations would prevent others from doing. [/quote]

here we go again

so what has your C&G installation A got do with it?

and why would 'insurance and regulations' prevent 'others' from using SWA

your market is clearly people who use SWA

and that is most defintely NOT limited to people who fit into your tightly defined box

Domestic installers?
Electricians mates?
maintenance electricians?

Under Part P, there is nothing to stop joe bloggs running SWA up his garden to feed his shed, but he is not a potential customer of yours?

Sorry, but i am not convinced that you actually know your (potential) market at all

most 'electricians' would strip SWA using traditional hacksaw and stanley knife anyway, so the chances are your market could well be the 'less qualified' end of the spectrum

good luck mate, i think you are going to need it:eek:
 
M

montybaber

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
maybe you could ask members on the forum to try the product and answer a questionaire or maybe write a report on how it compares to traditional methods.

I'd be willing to give it a go :)
 
B

Bane

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  • #30
He just wants to know if anyone has any idea how many electricians there are in the UK.

Simple.

Why so many people trying to sh*t on his idea?
 

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