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shagg

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As anyone out their done the C&G 2330 and gone on to do the NVQ, if so
how did you manage to do so?​
 

danzor

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Mentor
Arms
Just about to finish my 2330, thinking of doing the NVQ but on the other hand I dont really want to be working for any JIB firms. Then again its always something to fall back on
 
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Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
I finish my 2330 next week but won't bother with NVQ3. I think the JIB is a waste of time so don't work for companies who call themselves 'JIB' companies. Basically it is an excuse to pay you JIB rates which are so low.
 
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Rob

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Whats a JIB firm? Ive heard of sites, usually major contractor group and large new build housing developers etc who request jib cards.

Firms take on electricians, if thats what they want. And the recognised status for an electrician is qualfication to level 3 in both the C&G and the NVQ. The technical and the practical.

I dont think its a case of deciding not to do it if becoming an electrician is your goal. Its a requirement to become a "competent person". Ive seen people do the C&G course whilst holding down jobs in offices behind desks or other trades. Without the NVQ how can these people pass as an electrician. They could pass 3 years C&G with distinctions all the way and be experts on inductive reactance and three phase motor theory but have never so much as lifted a screwdriver in their life apart from the minimal practical experience you get during the C&G course.

I admit the NVQ is a pain. Alot of paper work and time consuming site visits and portfolio building. Its not even something that anyone can fail. It just takes as long as it takes. ?However its needed to establish whether someone is hands on competent as well as knowledge based.​
 
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Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Whats a JIB firm? Ive heard of sites, usually major contractor group and large new build housing developers etc who request jib cards.​


Firms take on electricians, if thats what they want. And the recognised status for an electrician is qualfication to level 3 in both the C&G and the NVQ. The technical and the practical.​

I dont think its a case of deciding not to do it if becoming an electrician is your goal. Its a requirement to become a "competent person". Ive seen people do the C&G course whilst holding down jobs in offices behind desks or other trades. Without the NVQ how can these people pass as an electrician. They could pass 3 years C&G with distinctions all the way and be experts on inductive reactance and three phase motor theory but have never so much as lifted a screwdriver in their life apart from the minimal practical experience you get during the C&G course.​


I admit the NVQ is a pain. Alot of paper work and time consuming site visits and portfolio building. Its not even something that anyone can fail. It just takes as long as it takes. ?However its needed to establish whether someone is hands on competent as well as knowledge based.​
Sorry Rob, but since when have you needed the C&G (preume you mean the 2330) and the NVQ to be a Competent Person? Who has decided that:confused:

By the way, by your defintion I am not an 'Electrician'

thats my my 25 years expeirence up for nowt then

I am teaching 17th edition tommorrow, 2392 next week and the 2391 the week later

However will I muddle through:p
 

ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
As I served my time many years ago and have not gone down this route of NVQ's etc, the reason I have been told for the NVQ's is that you can have passed all the certificates and have the theoretical knowledge but may not have any practical experience.

This is what the NVQ's are for, to show your practical knowledge (I am to understand) when having the on-site assessments with the log book you have to fill in.

I may be wrong but this is what I have been told, so don't go jumping down my throat saying I am talking through my anal passageway if I am wrong.:eek:
 
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Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
You are right Ian, absolutely right

the NVQ proves practical competence to compliment academic achievemient

and it meant that when i did my NVQ 3 in electrical maintenance engineering back in the mid nineties

what i object to is the inference (not from you Ian!) that without an NVQ 3 in installations, than you cant be an 'electrician' (and I know this has been discussed before, extensively)

of course the NVQ has its place, but i was doing entire three and single phase industrial installations (inlcuding generators etc, and testing and inspecting) for quite a few years before NVQ's were dreamed up by thatcher's crowd

maybe i should go back to college and learn to be a 'proper' electrician:p
 
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Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
This is a subject that annoys me too. I have worked as a spark for years and hold down 2330 L2 & L3. I am doing my 2391 and 17th and I am classed as a 'competent' electrician. I do not need NVQ3 to prove it and the only people that recognise NVQ3 are the JIB (Joint Industry Board). Without the NVQ3 THEY - get that, THEY decide in their organisation you can only be classed as an electrical improver and not an electrician. So what? Many employers don't follow JIB pay scales or guidelines anyway so what does it matter? From what I see, the only people doing NVQ3 are the apprentices going through the JTL route and why? Because it can be done during the 2330 course. It (at present in most colleges) cannot be taken in conjunction with the 2330 evening courses although thius is set to change.

I challenge anyone (like Shakey) to tell me that I am not an electrician!
 
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Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
well said Cirrus

and as you know, I have challenged a few on here (especially the 'proper sparks' brigade) to define what exactly what specific quals are needed before one can be 'labelled' as an 'Electrician'

i also offer the same 'proper sparks' to go toe-to-toe with this 'non sparks' on any electrical matters - no takers on either counts
 
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Rob

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Sorry Rob, but since when have you needed the C&G (preume you mean the 2330) and the NVQ to be a Competent Person? Who has decided that:confused:

Isnt that the industry recognised standard?

By the way, by your defintion I am not an 'Electrician'

thats my my 25 years expeirence up for nowt then

Thats not really my definition is it? I have a family member who has been in the trade 36 years.

Of course he did an apprentiship many moons ago before the days of NVQ. It would be ridiculous to assume people like him and yourself would then have to return to school to become electricians.

I was aiming my post as the folk who have been posting here of late regarding their 2330 exams/past papers etc. I am assuming they are relatively new to the trade.

I am teaching 17th edition tommorrow, 2392 next week and the 2391 the week later

Errr good for you
 
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Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Sorry Rob, but since when have you needed the C&G (preume you mean the 2330) and the NVQ to be a Competent Person? Who has decided that:confused:

Isnt that the industry recognised standard?

By the way, by your defintion I am not an 'Electrician'

thats my my 25 years expeirence up for nowt then

Thats not really my definition is it? I have a family member who has been in the trade 36 years.

Of course he did an apprentiship many moons ago before the days of NVQ. It would be ridiculous to assume people like him and yourself would then have to return to school to become electricians.

I was aiming my post as the folk who have been posting here of late regarding their 2330 exams/past papers etc. I am assuming they are relatively new to the trade.

I am teaching 17th edition tommorrow, 2392 next week and the 2391 the week later

Errr good for you
No Rob, it is not the 'industry recognised standard'

Not your definition?

Apart from your quote " And the recognised status for an electrician is qualfication to level 3 in both the C&G and the NVQ. The technical and the practical"

And like i said that means I am not an electrician

Oh, and i am still doing the teaches:p
 
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Rob

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
No Rob, it is not the 'industry recognised standard'

So what is the recognised standard then?

Not your definition?

Apart from your quote " And the recognised status for an electrician is qualfication to level 3 in both the C&G and the NVQ. The technical and the practical"

And like i said that means I am not an electrician

Like I said I was referring to people doing their training now. Not 25 years ago when NVQs werent in exsistence.

This is only my opinion based on what local authorities, major contractor groups, further education colleges deem as "qualified" when you ask them.

Are they all wrong?

Oh, and i am still doing the teaches

:confused: If you are a teacher then it might be worth learning how to write a sentence properly.
 
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bobajob

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Just wanted to put in my two penneth worth.

If a person can pass the relevent exams and then get registered on a competent persons scheme, then he can carry out electrical work, and certify his own work. Isn't that right?

So really it dosn't matter if a person is "qualified" or not. If he has the correct certificates, can work safely and can get a well paid job working with electricity, then isn't that the final goal? Surely the NVQ is just another string to help in getting work, useful but not essential. When he has worked long enough to gain experience then he can work for himself if he wants to.

Too many people seem to want to complicate the whole process.
 
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Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Just wanted to put in my two penneth worth.

If a person can pass the relevent exams and then get registered on a competent persons scheme, then he can carry out electrical work, and certify his own work. Isn't that right?

So really it dosn't matter if a person is "qualified" or not. If he has the correct certificates, can work safely and can get a well paid job working with electricity, then isn't that the final goal? Surely the NVQ is just another string to help in getting work, useful but not essential. When he has worked long enough to gain experience then he can work for himself if he wants to.

Too many people seem to want to complicate the whole process.
and use the term 'Electrician' purely to define people who carry out electrical installations on commerical domestic or industrial infrastructure

there are some 43 categories of trades/tradesman out there who can call themselves 'electricians', and the majority of them do not install fixed wiring

the term 'electrician' is not a 'protected' term like 'Doctor', where you have to achieve a prescribed set of academic criteria

And just because people like the JIB proclaim that you are not an 'electrician' until you achieve X,Y and Z does not make it so, it just means that you cannot be a JIB Electrican until you achieve X,Y and Z
 
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Rob

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
So in your experience of teaching Shakey. What route would you recommend someone with no or little experience takes if his goal is to become a competent electrician?
 
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betambeau

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
shagg, to answer your question, i've finisheed 2330 L2, and am about to start my NVQ with ctd quickstep (QuickStep-NVQ) while i do 2330 L3 (cos it takes a while to finish the log book.
 
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shagg

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Hi again everyone sorry to interupt this debate seeing that everyones getting on so
well :p but i think that it's going in the wrong direction. Just to let everyone know that
i have done my 2330 L2 and the 17th and due to start the 2330 L3 in September
plus the 2391 next year. I have also had a job in this field for some time now and in
fact thinking about going self-employed in a year or so. So i count myself as a
competent electrician i'm just intrested in the nvq to add another string to my bow:cool:.

So thank you betambeau for answering my question. I have hurd about this place but
just wounded if there was anywhere else that did the same sort of thing and people
who have done the course:confused:.
 
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Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
So in your experience of teaching Shakey. What route would you recommend someone with no or little experience takes if his goal is to become a competent electrician?
A competent 'what' electrician Rob?

maintanance electrician?

installation electrician?

auto-electrician?

etc etc, i have taught them all, and more, down the years, and its horses for courses

The point is, you need a skills set appropriate to the intended field of employment

if you are going for installation electrician, in industrial and/or commercial and/or domestic then the 2330 is the obvious route, possibly with the appropriate NVQ3 and AM2 at the end

however if you intend focussing on the domestic market, then learning inductive reactance and motor control is, quite frankly, a waste of time and i would reccomend the EAL course, 17th edition, 2392 and eventually 2391

of course, both routes need practical experience before the term 'competent' is bandied about.

Glad to see that we are now recognising that the route for a newcomer, whilst appropriate, does not mean that those that followed a different route previously are any less valid as tradesman

unfortuntely, the blinkered 'proper sparks' brigade both here and within ECA, JIB etc wont recognise people like me, and i've sent longer in college and at the 'coal face' than many of them
 
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Rob

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
A competent 'what' electrician Rob?

maintanance electrician?

installation electrician?

auto-electrician?

etc etc, i have taught them all, and more, down the years, and its horses for courses

The point is, you need a skills set appropriate to the intended field of employment


I think you are splitting hairs Shakey. I dont see too many auto electricians around here so I think you know full well what "variety" of electrician im referring to.

if you are going for installation electrician, in industrial and/or commercial and/or domestic then the 2330 is the obvious route, possibly with the appropriate NVQ3 and AM2 at the end

So pretty much what I said in the first place then? That the NVQ is required?

Glad to see that we are now recognising that the route for a newcomer, whilst appropriate, does not mean that those that followed a different route previously are any less valid as tradesman

I didnt say any different. You have just assumed I was reffering to ALL trademen, instead of those currently under going their training now.

however if you intend focussing on the domestic market, then learning inductive reactance and motor control is, quite frankly, a waste of time and i would reccomend the EAL course, 17th edition, 2392 and eventually 2391

Out of interest, would the EAL course teach you as much as the 2330 in terms of domestic related work? I am aware the 2330 covers alot of industrial related operations but surely somebody doing the 2330 would complete the course with a much better overall knowledge even of domestic level electrics than that of a student doing the EAL?
 

ian.settle1

-
Mentor
Arms
Just wanted to put in my two penneth worth.

If a person can pass the relevent exams and then get registered on a competent persons scheme, then he can carry out electrical work, and certify his own work. Isn't that right?

So really it dosn't matter if a person is "qualified" or not. If he has the correct certificates, can work safely and can get a well paid job working with electricity, then isn't that the final goal? Surely the NVQ is just another string to help in getting work, useful but not essential. When he has worked long enough to gain experience then he can work for himself if he wants to.

Too many people seem to want to complicate the whole process.
This retains to house bashing only the is no such thing for commercial or industrial work:D
 
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bobajob

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
Good point Ian, thanks for the correction.

:)
 
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sparky1983

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
Thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. I've started an apprenticeship late, at 24. Mine is in Electrotechnical Installation (Building and Structures) Lol, I think that most of us here are in that business.

In reference to the JIB and all these courses (2330, 2356, 17th Edition, 2391, 2400, Part P, ECS card) I think, why not do them all?! I'm with an NICEIC Co but I believe having all these quals improves your job prospects, and open doors, IF you want to go through them. That's what I'm going to do. Anyone agree?
 
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Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. I've started an apprenticeship late, at 24. Mine is in Electrotechnical Installation (Building and Structures) Lol, I think that most of us here are in that business.

In reference to the JIB and all these courses (2330, 2356, 17th Edition, 2391, 2400, Part P, ECS card) I think, why not do them all?! I'm with an NICEIC Co but I believe having all these quals improves your job prospects, and open doors, IF you want to go through them. That's what I'm going to do. Anyone agree?
you may struggle with the 2400 a bit

it bit the dust a number of years ago!

it is now part of the 2391 (as a seperate qual);)
 
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sparky1983

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
What do you mean Shakey? Although I can only guess what's involved in the 2400 course by the course name, my college indicates via it's prospectus that it does the course. The last time I checked anyway.

Oh, I forgot about PAT testing! "Boring, boring" as my boss has said, and as I have seen. I'd do the qual anyway!
 
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Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
What do you mean Shakey? Although I can only guess what's involved in the 2400 course by the course name, my college indicates via it's prospectus that it does the course. The last time I checked anyway.

Oh, I forgot about PAT testing! "Boring, boring" as my boss has said, and as I have seen. I'd do the qual anyway!
well sorry fella, but they are wrong, it is at least 3, if not 4 years since the 2400 was ditched

the 2391 is now split, one part of it is the inspecting and testing and one part is the design (the old 2400)

they are entriely seperate unconnected quals, but both come under 2391

take a look on C&G's website if you like!;)
 
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sparky1983

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
Thanks Shakey. I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't updated these leaflets. I haven't been impressed with my CoVE college and I was there last year doing something completely different!
 
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