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Discuss Outdoor 230 EV charger with 115 V outlet: supply through conduit . Does this plan make sense? in the Advice for Professional Canadian Electricians area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hi!

I’d like to install a pedestal-mounted (230 V, 30 A max - programmable) EV charger close to my driveway, which ends about 12 feet away from the house, on the other side of a landscaped rock wall of sorts. While I am at it, I would like to oversize the circuit to allow a second EV charger to be installed on the pedestal one day (with both chargers operating at 20 A, when operating at the same time). In the meantime, I am considering mounting a 115 V GFCI weather-proof socket on that pedestal for convenient access when working on the driveway, supplied by the same circuit. The project is in Canada, with similar requirements as the US, though not identical: nevertheless, I do ask advice from anybody who has suggestions!

So here’s the general plan for which I am soliciting your input (detailed calcs with respect to conductor sizing, conduit fill, voltage drop, etc. not yet complete). Run a 3-wire THWN-2 No. 6 AWG (copper) circuit (2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground) through Schedule 40 PVC conduit (PVC 80 conduit does not appear to be recognized by the Canadian Electrical Code, for some mysterious reason that would love to know!) from a 50 A breaker at my panel, through the concrete basement wall, to an LB access fitting (conduit length of roughly 9 feet, with two 90-degree turns and a 45-degree turn from the panel), then run outdoors along the front of the house, hidden behind the siding (which hovers roughly waist-high above grade, extending like a skirt outside the concrete basement wall), for a distance of roughly 23 feet, complete with expansion joint, to another LB access fitting at the corner of the house, then down into the ground (vertical drop of roughly 6 feet with another expansion joint), with 90-degree bend to the horizontal under ground, then 12 feet towards the driveway, where it turns the corner of the landscaping wall with a second 90-degree bend, continues for 6 feet along the wall (still underground), then turns upward through another 90-degree bend, for a distance of roughly 6 feet (with another expansion joint!), where it feeds into a panel of sorts.

My biggest concern is that last 30 foot (two 6-foot verticals + 18-foot underground horizontal) run of conduit from the corner of the house, with three 90-degree turns in it. Is this a difficult (or wire-damaging) pull, with a helper pushing and, if need be, plenty of messy lubricant? (I plan to install the conduit bells all facing the same way, to minimize the likelihood of catching.) Does it make sense to plan to pull the (hopefully not tangled) wires out at each LB access fitting, for each run, then start feeding anew at each LB access fitting for the next run? Does this plan have any obvious fatal flaws? (I know, by the way, that I have to be careful re. burial depth, warning tape, mechanical protection over “drivable” areas, though the conduit will be hugging stone walls to a great degree). Would you do the whole thing differently? I kind of like the conduit idea, because it provides mechanical protection (I do wish somebody could tell me why Canada does not recognize Schedule 80 PVC!) and PVC would be easier for me to work with as a DYI project and I imagine is less expensive than alternatives (not to mention corrosion-resistant).

On the circuit design side of things, would it be a code violation to have this 3-wire system, which is protected by a “single” 50 A double-pole breaker (with the neutral wire connected to the panel neutral bus), feed not only the 230 V EV charger, but also a 115 V GFCI outlet on the EV charger pedestal? At the pedestal itself, do I really need to use 6 AWG wire to run from the EV charger junction box to the 115 V GFCI outlet? I imagine the answer to the second question is that in principle it would be a code violation, but in practice, it is not a safety issue.

I understand that the ground (green) wire does not need to be as large as the hot wires: does 8 AWG for the ground wire make sense for a circuit with 6 AWG hot wires or is this still overkill? As for the neutral wire, which is used only by the 115 V outlet (which is nevertheless protected by the 50 A breaker at the panel), I suppose that code still requires that it be 6 AWG?

Thank you for any words of wisdom you would care to share!
 

Megawatt

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Hi!

I’d like to install a pedestal-mounted (230 V, 30 A max - programmable) EV charger close to my driveway, which ends about 12 feet away from the house, on the other side of a landscaped rock wall of sorts. While I am at it, I would like to oversize the circuit to allow a second EV charger to be installed on the pedestal one day (with both chargers operating at 20 A, when operating at the same time). In the meantime, I am considering mounting a 115 V GFCI weather-proof socket on that pedestal for convenient access when working on the driveway, supplied by the same circuit. The project is in Canada, with similar requirements as the US, though not identical: nevertheless, I do ask advice from anybody who has suggestions!

So here’s the general plan for which I am soliciting your input (detailed calcs with respect to conductor sizing, conduit fill, voltage drop, etc. not yet complete). Run a 3-wire THWN-2 No. 6 AWG (copper) circuit (2 hot, 1 neutral, 1 ground) through Schedule 40 PVC conduit (PVC 80 conduit does not appear to be recognized by the Canadian Electrical Code, for some mysterious reason that would love to know!) from a 50 A breaker at my panel, through the concrete basement wall, to an LB access fitting (conduit length of roughly 9 feet, with two 90-degree turns and a 45-degree turn from the panel), then run outdoors along the front of the house, hidden behind the siding (which hovers roughly waist-high above grade, extending like a skirt outside the concrete basement wall), for a distance of roughly 23 feet, complete with expansion joint, to another LB access fitting at the corner of the house, then down into the ground (vertical drop of roughly 6 feet with another expansion joint), with 90-degree bend to the horizontal under ground, then 12 feet towards the driveway, where it turns the corner of the landscaping wall with a second 90-degree bend, continues for 6 feet along the wall (still underground), then turns upward through another 90-degree bend, for a distance of roughly 6 feet (with another expansion joint!), where it feeds into a panel of sorts.

My biggest concern is that last 30 foot (two 6-foot verticals + 18-foot underground horizontal) run of conduit from the corner of the house, with three 90-degree turns in it. Is this a difficult (or wire-damaging) pull, with a helper pushing and, if need be, plenty of messy lubricant? (I plan to install the conduit bells all facing the same way, to minimize the likelihood of catching.) Does it make sense to plan to pull the (hopefully not tangled) wires out at each LB access fitting, for each run, then start feeding anew at each LB access fitting for the next run? Does this plan have any obvious fatal flaws? (I know, by the way, that I have to be careful re. burial depth, warning tape, mechanical protection over “drivable” areas, though the conduit will be hugging stone walls to a great degree). Would you do the whole thing differently? I kind of like the conduit idea, because it provides mechanical protection (I do wish somebody could tell me why Canada does not recognize Schedule 80 PVC!) and PVC would be easier for me to work with as a DYI project and I imagine is less expensive than alternatives (not to mention corrosion-resistant).

On the circuit design side of things, would it be a code violation to have this 3-wire system, which is protected by a “single” 50 A double-pole breaker (with the neutral wire connected to the panel neutral bus), feed not only the 230 V EV charger, but also a 115 V GFCI outlet on the EV charger pedestal? At the pedestal itself, do I really need to use 6 AWG wire to run from the EV charger junction box to the 115 V GFCI outlet? I imagine the answer to the second question is that in principle it would be a code violation, but in practice, it is not a safety issue.

I understand that the ground (green) wire does not need to be as large as the hot wires: does 8 AWG for the ground wire make sense for a circuit with 6 AWG hot wires or is this still overkill? As for the neutral wire, which is used only by the 115 V outlet (which is nevertheless protected by the 50 A breaker at the panel), I suppose that code still requires that it be 6 AWG?

Thank you for any words of wisdom you would care to share!
That’s quite a pull through all that conduit and by code you can’t have more than 360 degrees without a pulling point like an LB or junction box. As far as your 120 vac GFCI receptacle set a junction box and splice your wires for the EV charger and your receptacle. You can use # 10 wire for your ground. Your neutral can be the same size as your live conductor for your receptacle Just splice # 12 wire for your GFCI. It’s called the tap rule as long as your splices are not more than 10 feet long.
 

Reply to Outdoor 230 EV charger with 115 V outlet: supply through conduit . Does this plan make sense? in the Advice for Professional Canadian Electricians area at ElectriciansForums.net

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