Party wall agreements are blank cheques for your neighbours to spend your money.

[The Ghost]

I do not really expect any replies, just a little rant, a voice in the wilderness. I shelved the idea of going into my loft coversion today. The neighbours have legitimate concerns regards all sorts. The cost of appointing surveyors is such that we have decided we will have to move if we want a larger house it will be cheaper. It is just a bit disappointing that things have worked out that way. If you are considering a loft extension allow for anything up to 10k reserve funds deposited in an annexed account to pay for neighbours worries and surveyors. Rant finished.

 

[Squid]

Where did you get costs from all you need is to issue them with an agreement and get photos taken before the work starts, technically you don't even need a PWA, are they elderly?

Don't give up as its just a hiccup,

Preventing and resolving disputes in relation to party walls - GOV.UK - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/party-wall-etc-act-1996-guidance

 

[The Ghost]

The figures come from appointing a party wall surveyor. One neighbour has spoken with the other neighbour and they assume I will be using ex worm farmers or trimble wheel makers from noddy land to do the building work and no structural calculations will be used or surveyors to draw up the design and submit to building control (which is already done).
They are deeply concerned about damage to their property and want all sorts of info. At £200 per hour for an independent surveyor who they probably will not accept and want to appoint their own, I imagine at least 2k for the surveyor and more if there is any contention on the way. Apparently in London and other places surveyors send out scare letters when they get wind of upcoming developments and get the neighbour to sign up to appointing them to spend money like water. I fear, as our neighbour is very "clever" (he has downloaded and read the Party wall Act) this could lead to complications which I just can not budget for. And of course the neighbour has surveyor friends. I can't compete with that from both sides. In any event they are not going to sign, either side, which will put us into dispute automagically and surveyors will be appointed and so on. I am a simple tradesman they are professionals. And they reflect that in their attitudes and dealings with me.

 

[Squid]

Don't be put off, when you say "clever" you mean they are "smart arses" if you build a dormer then I would assume that you won't need a PWA?

 

[Squid]

Also have a chat with your neighbours as to see what concerns they have, if you have your own surveyor and they share the same surveyor then the costs could be reasonable. You can also mention that if you can't extend then you will rent the house to the local council as they are looking for properties to house recently released paedos from prison.

 

[Squid]

When I did my flat (it was end of terrace) I had the neighbour downstairs to contend with as well as the two flats next door which where Notting Hill Housing Association, in the end I went with the surveyor they appointed to keep the costs down even though the upstairs neighbour "Mr George" was a right fecking pain the the backside...........



Oh and have a read here,


Do I Need A Party Wall Agreement? - HomeOwners Alliance - https://hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for-homeowners/i-am-improving/party-wall-agreement/

 

[Squid]

Also I am now going to be harsh now, don't be a fecking ----pot and allow your neighbours to feck you over as you'll never get anywhere in life if you decide to give up at the first hurdle.


You can thank me later ;o)))))

 

[telectrix]

a dog turd though a letter box usually kills a lot of objections.

 

[marconi]

Party wall legislation and procedure - http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/professional-guidance/guidance-notes/party-wall-legislation-and-procedure-6th-edition/

Party walls - http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/glossary/party-walls/

Just been through the saga of Party Wall Agreements with neighbours on either side of us. We appointed a 'Joint Surveyor' with their nod and spent £1800 on each PWA. Even then we had a saga with one side because of argy-bargy over scaffolding on their land, access to their land for excavations and to build the wall and hyped up concern for their safety. We were badly let down by the Joint Surveyor because he did not make it explicit that scaffolding and access were required for a good finish to the brick wall facing these neighbours and to throw and tile the roof. According to RICS and the Joint Surveyor access for scaffolding is taken as read but I would not rely on that again - be crystal clear. Also be very specific about what you are building and excavating and thus what form of access is needed and for how long.

I emailed RICS help line and found them useful in clearing up some of the false information from our neighbours.

 

[The Ghost]

I am looking into telebeams where I do not have to go onto the party wall. I want to do the work and just tell them when the scaffolding is going up. Then watch them explode with impotent gnashing of teeth and wailing actually. Not that I am a vengeful person. But woebetide them any work they want to do on a party wall basis.

 

[Squid]

Party wall legislation and procedure - http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/professional-guidance/guidance-notes/party-wall-legislation-and-procedure-6th-edition/

Party walls - http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/glossary/party-walls/

Just been through the saga of Party Wall Agreements with neighbours on either side of us. We appointed a 'Joint Surveyor' with their nod and spent £1800 on each PWA. Even then we had a saga with one side because of argy-bargy over scaffolding on their land, access to their land for excavations and to build the wall and hyped up concern for their safety. We were badly let down by the Joint Surveyor because he did not make it explicit that scaffolding and access were required for a good finish to the brick wall facing these neighbours and to throw and tile the roof. According to RICS and the Joint Surveyor access for scaffolding is taken as read but I would not rely on that again - be crystal clear. Also be very specific about what you are building and excavating and thus what form of access is needed and for how long.

As its a loft conversion then they should be less issues as no excavations, when my neighbours did their renovation I was fine as why am I to hold up progress.

 

[Squid]

I am looking into telebeams where I do not have to go onto the party wall. I want to do the work and just tell them when the scaffolding is going up. Then watch them explode with impotent gnashing of teeth and wailing actually. Not that I am a vengeful person. But woebetide them any work they want to do on a party wall basis.

Just tell them you need the loft conversion for your music studio and drum kits.........

 

[marconi]

Just tell them you need the loft conversion for your insomniac teenage son's music studio and drum kits.........

 

[The Ghost]

£1800 on each PWA.

yep that is about the order of costs I would be expecting at best. Having looked at the links you furnished it makes me lose the will to live having to deal with all that! Anyway as I say Telebeams which I think @Leesparkykent put me on to when I first mentioned the idea of loft conversion on the forum.

 

[Squid]

Still cheaper then moving........., solicitors fees, estate agent fees, moving costs, stamp duty etc etc etc thats £20k gone.

 

[marconi]

If you have not done it, and we regret we did not, it is worth having a discussion with a scaffolder about the art of the possible. There are some very impressive scaffolds erected for building work at houses near us which do not go onto the neighbour's land - they go front to back over the top of the house.

 

[The Ghost]

Here a back to back house purchase/sale goes for about 10g. Loft conversion 15k PWA costs maybe 5-10K. Don't forget I can go off the party wall as well and just ignore the neighbours and get on with it.

 

[telectrix]

scaffolding???? that's for wimps. a few beer crates stacked up well efficient up to 30 ft.

 

[Squid]

Loft conversion for £15k feck me.........

Apologies I live in London, the prices mean its cheaper to extend then to move, the stamp duty is a real killer.

Sell the house to a bunch of misfits and then move, that'll learn them lol

 

[The Ghost]

I know, my Son just bought a house for 675K and considered it cheap outside London! The conversion would just be a shell conversion hence cheap. The rest I will do myself. So total cost may be higher but over time.