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Discuss pat testing a storage heater in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

soulman

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Arms
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Hi, I am doing a bit of work for a landlord & he has asked whether i would pat test a few of his flats. I always pat test the fixed appliances as well and quote accordingly when testing a cooker especially if it earth leakage i only put on one of the rings at a time and test so as not to overload kt71 pat tester. But i need to test storage heaters would i best using my multifunction & testing earth continuity & IR rather than pat tester

Cheers
 
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I'm sorry I'm not the greatest of PAT testers but what do you mean you turn one ring on at a time, I thought that all appliances must be isolated to do testing.
 

soulman

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Hi, Quite new to pat testing myself, dont really want to do it, but i have been getting asked for it. If the cooker contains electronics, earth leakage test (live test) putting on all the rings or all rings & oven may take it over 3 kw to much for test instrument. So as storage heater usually contain no electronics could i just multifunction? Cheers
 
O

oldtimer

I think you mean if the storage heater is on an off peak supply well how do you test it so as it is a fixed appliance you would have to disconnect it at the switch on the wall fine if you are an electrician but if you are a PAT tester you are not authorised or insured for this.This would be the same with the cooker.

You have touched on a sensitive subject here as there is problems within the PAT industry with regards to testing fixed appliances
 
Again I maybe wrong here, but I thought the Earth leakage test which is associated with electric strength test was a manufacturing test and is not needed in a normal PAT testing regime
 

soulman

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
I was taught to conduct this test instead of IR where the unit contain electronic equipment such a microwave. I also maybe wrong!!
 

topquark

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Mentor
Arms
Class I = Earth Bond and IR Test.
Class II = Insulation Test.

You can optionally do a flash test (if you have the equipment to do it and understand the consequences of getting it wrong!). It is generally recommended to do an operational test at the appropriate voltage (230/110).
 
O

oldtimer

Class I = Earth Bond and IR Test.
Class II = Insulation Test.

You can optionally do a flash test (if you have the equipment to do it and understand the consequences of getting it wrong!). It is generally recommended to do an operational test at the appropriate voltage (230/110).
Class II insulation test yet I get told most guys do a visual as the tester links out L&N and then references the test to earth or have I got this wrong?
 

topquark

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Mentor
Arms
Class II insulation test yet I get told most guys do a visual as the tester links out L&N and then references the test to earth or have I got this wrong?
No that's spot on mate. You are checking the L+N together against the case (and want a high reading), usually at 500V(DC).
 

hasel5

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Arms
Portable appliance testing is for portable items of equipment not cookers and storage heaters the clue is in the portable bit
 
O

oldtimer

Portable appliance testing is for portable items of equipment not cookers and storage heaters the clue is in the portable bit
Emmmm no actually it has been ISI&TEE (formally PAT) since last year because people are saying the same thing of the phrase Portable Appliance Testing is only for portable equipment the problem is the ISI&TEE COPs says otherwise. HSE have commissioned a report into the industry because of this so whats the problem well I&T covers fixed wiring and ISI&TEE covers all electrical equipment the only problem is that guys who are PAT tester trained only are not (and never will be) authorised or insured to open up FCU,cooker switches etc. Yes this is a headache but as usual it will be the insurance companies who get thing changed
 

Risteard

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Arms
Esteemed
Emmmm no actually it has been ISI&TEE (formally (sic) PAT) since last year because people are saying the same thing of the phrase Portable Appliance Testing
Surely it has always been called In-Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment as that is what it says on the cover of the Code of Practice. PAT is a slang term which is used - can't say it was ever an official term certainly for a long time now.
 
S

Steve_P

Portable Appliance Testing Testing (PAT Testing) is just what people know it as? I do the testing on one of the clubs near by and they get all the fixed stuff tested too but it's all on the MF tester visual etc, IR and continuity. There's provisions for portable, fixed, hand held and movable now isn't there?
 
O

oldtimer

Surely it has always been called In-Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment as that is what it says on the cover of the Code of Practice. PAT is a slang term which is used - can't say it was ever an official term certainly for a long time now.
Yep I agree thats what I meant to say is that the lecturer of the ISI&TEE course I went on was telling us that the term PAT has now taken hold to urban myth status and this is causing much hand ringing as the Schemies are just ignoring it whilst as he says it is non compliance with the COP not to test fixed appliances plus he said the colleges were asked to certify PAT testers to do this equipment and it was a straight no and there lies the problem the Schemies have sold and promoted PAT for non electricians who now find they can only part of it. He reckons that there will be a relaunch this year to eradicate the term PAT
 

soulman

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Hasel5 sorry you are completly wrong you shouldn't really post a sarcastic comment if you dont know what your talking about! Just because it hasn't got a plug doesn't mean you should test it,a cooker can be just as dangerous as a kettle. You wouldn't test a cooker as often as it is not often moved. Stevep i think you have answered my original post for the storage heaters. I'll just test with my multifunction. cheers.
It is also a grey area to whether FAT testing should be done while conducting a periodic or when pat testing. I always write in the limitations of an EICR, No fat or pat testing within the property unless specified.
 

hasel5

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Arms
Sorry guys not getting this a pat tester has a built in socket to plug the piece of kit onto ?

Any other item comes under a fixed wiring test as far as i am concerned
 

topquark

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Mentor
Arms
Have a look at the various adapters that can be purchased for said adapters. The equipment begin fed by a lot of those adapters will may be far from portable.
 

hasel5

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Arms
Not saying its not portable how do you test a cooker one ring at a time on a pat tester that uses a 13a socket as its input just seems mad to me
 
O

oldtimer

Not saying its not portable how do you test a cooker one ring at a time on a pat tester that uses a 13a socket as its input just seems mad to me
When they wrote the regs fixed wiring came under I&T with all appliances coming under ISI&TEE (what people call PAT) fixed appliances were always there but were to put it mildly ignored because PAT was the buzzword but now FA are not getting ignored and as the lecturer explained to me it has opened a big can of worms with regards who can test them because the colleges will not authorise dedicated PAT testers to do this as they say there is no grey area you have to be a qualified electrician and this then bumps on to what the Schemies are up to plus the insurance companies who initially drove this in the first place add that to the HSE executive commissioning a report on the industry and the outcome may be that ISI&TEE will have to be relaunched to eradicate the PAT myth ie portable equipment only. It does not help as there is no legal obligation to get electrical equipment tested and you have a mess

Just to add you can test FAs with a Kewtech test plug with test leads
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S

sparks1973

Again I maybe wrong here, but I thought the Earth leakage test which is associated with electric strength test was a manufacturing test and is not needed in a normal PAT testing regime
thats dielectric strength testing Malc...or `flash` testing and yes...this is normally carried out at the manufacturing stage...or after repairs have been carried out..its done at 1.5KV for class 1s...and 3KV for class 2s.....your run/load/earth leakage tests are/can be carried out as an addition to the mandatory `dead` tests....
 
H

hazelm

Portable appliance testing is for portable items of equipment not cookers and storage heaters the clue is in the portable bit
Portable Appliance Testing is a misnomer.

Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment includes both portable appliances and fixed wired (connected by a flex outlet) appliances. These all have the same tests and are fully described in the IEE book. If anyone rents out a property, both types of appliances should eb tested before the property is rented. The landlord is responsible.
 
H

hazelm

Sorry guys not getting this a pat tester has a built in socket to plug the piece of kit onto ?

Any other item comes under a fixed wiring test as far as i am concerned
Fixed wiring tests are for installations starting at the consumer unit and ending in sockets, flex outlets, switches and cooker outlets.

Ignore the "PAT testing" bit!!!! This is a misnomer.

Read the Code of Practice for Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment. This states very clearly that testing needs to be done not only on electrical equipment connected by plug and socket but also on appliances connected by a flexible wire to a flex outlet.

PAT Testing is just a part of it. Some PAT testers are good enough to be able to record results of hard wired appliances and are well worth it.
 
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