Discuss Periodic Inspection and Testing for NICEIC in the Certification NICEIC, NAPIT, Stroma, BECSA Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hi guys,

Is it true that NICEIC requires that the PIR testing is the 100% of the installation? I have always tested around 50-60%, but now I have client who is saying that the NICEIC wants 100%.

Anybody knows about this?

thanks!
 
In order to be really valid a PIR has to be 100%....the recommendation is that if sampling a percentage of the install shows up problems then 100% will be necessary.After all an partial PIR on a suspect install will leave a host of unfound issues....common sense really.
 
Visual inspection, or sampling of, can be agreed at a percentage depending on initial findings i.e, you state 25% of accessories inspected. If this shows up any hidden nasties then it should be increased to 100%.

As for physical testing of final circuits I always perform 100%, unless there are any agreed limitations due to access & inconvenience etc.
 
You could also argue that 100% would mean chasing the wall out!

True. To just state 100% visual inspection would indicate that this is the case which is where the word 'accessories' comes in.

I also note items like in my limitations - cables buried within building fabric & beneath floors are not visually inspected.

Setting out exactly whats what is key IMO.
 
Its the client who decides,not the niceic,whatever they do or do not want inspected and tested is up to them as they are the ones paying for it,i was called today from a howmeowner who says she had a new consumer unit fitted 4 years ago,the sparky who did the job did not issue any test certs,they think he is retired as can not contact him,she wanted a cert because without it the sale is off,so the only thing to do is a periodic.
 
Sdandard limitations are listed in the BRB BGB so there is NO way you can perform 100%test without ripping walls ceilings ect to bits Tell the client to stop being a bellend n accept your findings
 
Hi guys,

Is it true that NICEIC requires that the PIR testing is the 100% of the installation? I have always tested around 50-60%, but now I have client who is saying that the NICEIC wants 100%.

Anybody knows about this?

thanks!
When it comes to testing for IR, you test all the final circuits, for finding R1+R2, you check all the light sockets & sockets on radials and you will read Zs on all the sockets on the ring (live test) – so how do you test 50-60% of the installation? Do you pick ‘n’ choose the circuits and sockets at random?

...and if all the sockets are not tested, what would one put down on the test sheet?

Cheers!
 
NICEIC's book BS 7671:2008 17th edition Learning Guide states

"The periodic inspection and testing procedure does not require all equipment to be inspected or all tests to be carried out. The emphasis should be to assess which areas require inspection or tests on a risk basis. Because some dismantling may create problems the regulations recommend either no dismantling or partial dismantling, supplemented by appropriate tests. It is important that precautions are taken to ensure that the inspection and testing does not cause danger to persons or livestock or damage top property and equipment even if the circuit is defective."

This is from there own litrature, so unless they changed their tune I would say they endorse sampling. Though I agree with above posts, if any faults are found then 100% should be done.
 
Hi guys,

Is it true that NICEIC requires that the PIR testing is the 100% of the installation?

Which part do you mean? Removal of accessories etc? I agree with the others here that you should be testing 100% of the readings but not removing all switches etc. If it the accessories that you mean, NIC did a video a year or two ago where Tony Cable or whatever he's called said that you dont need to remove everything. i have never resorted to taking everything off - you just dont need to unless you find something that warrants further investigation
 
Lets be reasonable here. A PIR cost around £120 to £150. If you would do a full 100% of the installation then you might as well go being a laborer for the money you earn.

Also, it is simple common sense to not remove every single light fitting, is it not?

I always fully test the ring, the shower and the cooker circuit. The rest I sample. If that is not good enough I will stop doing PIR`s because simply I can earn more pulling in cables and not worry about anything at all.
 
In what way do you sample the circuits? (not having a go - just curious) That NICEIC video i mentioned states you can do a global test on your board with all fuses / mcbs in. I am old school and prefer to do them one by one, although it does take a lot longer. What reading s do you put for the cicruits you havent tested?
 
In what way do you sample the circuits? (not having a go - just curious) That NICEIC video i mentioned states you can do a global test on your board with all fuses / mcbs in. I am old school and prefer to do them one by one, although it does take a lot longer. What reading s do you put for the cicruits you havent tested?
LIM, I guess or just make it up, LOL
 
just check 10% unless you find dodgy work. and remember guys you are required to make circuit charts and diagrams if none are available...
 
I'm not having a dig at you, just expressing an opinion on what you've said. It's not the way to do things IMHO. As has been said already, physically inspecting the installation can be done on a sampling basis. You look at the overall and make a judgement how much or little you want to check. However, when it comes to testing, test all the circuits.

Lets be reasonable here. A PIR cost around £120 to £150. If you would do a full 100% of the installation then you might as well go being a laborer for the money you earn.

Vary the price according to the size of the installation. A 'standard' installation in a 2 or 3 bed house would be half a day, so OK at that price. A larger installation (larger building, more circuits, more workstations/machines/appliances/sockets etc) take more time and therefore cost more.

Also, it is simple common sense to not remove every single light fitting, is it not?

Sort of, in that you would check the circuit at the furthest point and mid-point. If you're not happy with the results check more. That would apply to both/all the lighting circuits though.

I always fully test the ring, the shower and the cooker circuit. The rest I sample.

Why pick those? They're no more or less dangerous than any other circuit.


If that is not good enough I will stop doing PIR`s because simply I can earn more pulling in cables and not worry about anything at all.

It could be argued that you aren't doing a PIR anyway, just a part inspection and test.
So
 
Hi alli

I think your client is confusing the NICEIC requirement for 100% TESTING with SAMPLING.

As you are no doubt well aware periodic inspection reporting is a two part process and usually conducted in the following order. First the installation is fully inspected then all relevant circuits are tested.
With bigger installations and ones consisting of multiple sub mains and dis boards, each area served by a particular board would be inspected and then the sub and board tested before moving on to next one.

The process of inspection requires the inspector to visually assess the installation for any obvious deviations to BS7671. A sample of the accessories and equipment is then looked at. In domestic installations this usually means dropping a few lighting pendants/downlighters, socket outlets and switches. This is known as sampling. As has been said before, it simply isn't feasible to look at every single item and its certainly not required by the NIC. Depending on the condition of the items sampled, and how they've been installed, further sampling may be required. If major deficiencies are found, the client should be informed immediately and isolation may have to be considered.

The process of testing refers only to the actual testing of the circuits with a suitable test instrument. These specific test procedures detailed in guidance note 3 are to be applied to all relevant circuits i.e the NICEIC requirement of 100% Testing. This is where your client is mistaken.

Now obviously 100% testing doesn't mean you have to test every single piece of cable at every single point available. Its quite acceptable for heating control, low-voltage, intruder/fire alarm wiring etc to be omitted from the testing procedure however, this should be recorded in the "extent of installation covered" section of the report and ideally, agreed with the client beforehand.
All other mains circuits that form part of the consumers installation must be tested unless there's a specific reason why they cant, i.e they cant be traced, must stay energized, are inaccessible etc. Again these reasons must be recorded in the "limitations" section of the report.
As has been said by the others, there's no need to test at every point but each circuit must be tested preferably at the furthest point from the supply. Every circuit including sub-mains must be recorded in the circuit details section of the report along with the relevant test results.


Hope this helps with your awkward client...
 
I thought the whole point of having a section titled 'Extent of the Installation and Limitations of the Inspection and Testing' and making sure it is completed BEFORE you begin, was to avoid situations like this arising.

Ask your customer this...

Why, if the NIC want 100% done, is there a section detailing 'Extent' and 'Limitations' on their own forms?

If the requirement was 100% then there would be no need for this section in the first place...:banghead:
 

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