Discuss Perpetual Energy and how you would make it usable? in the Hyrdoelectric Power Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Duncan Norman

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Dragons Den ? what a good do you think that would do ? energy is now the worlds 'base currency' tied to the US$ It hasn't been gold for years -
Here's how that was done
and continues to be done - and the reasons are still the same and the wars and crap are still for the same reasons . Dragons Den ? I don't think so do you? - like I say its a hobby . 'If you want to know' throw a couple of spoons - draw the energy graph.
kind regards Duncan
 

Rob

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Duncan Norman

Regular EF Member
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48
Location
Kendal
No - That is quite obvious - it is the rapidly changing dielectric property of what is effectively 'a very good capacitor' That is of interest . - Its the heating curve thats also becomes of interest because that too must be exploited .
Its useful to keep in mind (although perhaps stating the obvious) that boiling water is using Milli amps - both effects come into play .
also note even with the simple spoon experiment I have suggested that at very close proximity - instant localized boiling occurs (regardless of water temperature) - that also has to be exploited.
first please confirm the simple first step . Its not supposed to be what you might refer to as over-unity -yet - however Its a very simple thing to do so then please listen and watch carefully.
I'll then be happy to draw and explain the next bit of Peter's Device. The more I regard what this Man did and how he did it the more respect I have. The bit you are doing here is a very crude example of one of his first patents , one that was granted (because it wasn't OU)

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I suggest (as I have) - you need to get inside this mans head and to see hear and experience what he did - Here is his first water heater - a multi plate capacitor with water as the di-electric .
 
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Rob

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Again, this tech has been around for a while and the principles are well understood. Just in regards to motor starters it's not just boiling water for a brew. The patent was accepted because there was a difference in designed use.
 

Duncan Norman

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Kendal
The technology of the first patent indeed has been around for years - The second patent was never issued and so you certainly have no idea of what it contained or how it functioned.
It is that second patent that caught my attention . particularly as an over unity of 20 times was noted by a Polish Professor who witnessed it in operation . (Dr Jan Pajak)
I say again (for the last time) confirm the first part as suggested - from those observations (particularly the sound) I can move on . If not and a couple of spoons in a jam jar is just to much to contemplate, then no matter there's plenty of other things I really should be doing. until someone actually does take an interest . kind regards Duncan
 

Rob

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I understand what is happening with the spoon experiment, so why would I try it?

The second patent was not granted, wonder why? Quick research on Dr Jan shows he is a conspiracy theorist, with no published work of any merit.

Unless you can describe something new, rather than repeating yourself on aspects that have no real bearing on perpetual energy, or this make believe theory/device you have but will not divulge any information on, this will be my last post on the thread.

An there are a number of reactions that are above unity, (or to word it better, output more energy than is put in) I made one example in an earlier post. NONE of these are sustainable. An the closest thing that is being worked on to being an above unity constant generator is the fusion reactor in France. This is still not a perpetual energy device, it will have a finite life span.
 

Duncan Norman

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Kendal
Thats easy - so everyone else who reads this thread can see what I have described (so far) has been sucsessfully replicated. The thread is for all readers (not just for your benefit). If you do fully understand what is happening so much the better because I certainly don't - I'm simply manipulating what I see in practice . and forcing what I have been taught "as laws" to a point of error . for example - a capacitor causes a 90 deg phase shift - really ? not here it doesn't .
 

static zap

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... (for the last time) ......
. If not and a couple of spoons in a jam jar is just to much to contemplate, then no matter there's plenty of other things I really should be doing.
kind regards Duncan
I'm thinking if you have witnessed an energy gain your self , maybe the instrumentation you are using is not valid to a sporadic / non sinusoidal load .
(or was there any corrosion /cleaning off of contaminants )
Is the process sustainable without eroding the electrodes? Some chemistry is very exothermic.
(as a kid I played with 36V and under rectified dc and electrolysis with carbon rod electrodes .. so most of my O2 seemed to vanish) it did make a heater ,with the side effect of boosting chemical effcts as it warmed.
(If it's someone elses work -Fakery for funding is a £££)
 
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Duncan Norman

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Kendal
The responce is easy - two spoons , 10 mins of your time . and no these guys are not wrong 20 x OU is just a sniff, howeve if we must race or fight, to prove then there has to be an equal start line - that is - 'two spoons' Its where Davey started - do the same
make good and bloody sure it works , I did . simply replicate - I have posted it , make good and bloody sure it does and is exactly as I deduce.
wow - Peter Davey ! go away study the guy - Its all wrong very very wrong
 
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Duncan Norman

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Kendal
To prove what? Maintaining something at boiling point takes less energy than raising the temperature to boiling?
I paste and copy this email I sent to a friend some years ago which should explain all you need to know to understand Peters contraption.

Hi Jim I think your going to enjoy this anyway I'd like your thoughts on the latest bit of investigation I have been working on . I decided to revisit an old chestnut with my own methods which tend to be very different from other investigators simply because I tend to focus on the researcher and not until much later the machine.
It so happens that this particular guy was a WW2 spitfire fighter pilot involved with a squadron composed of volunteer pilots from the British colonies.
Unlike British nationals the colonial fighters were not conscripted, the 602 squadron suffered a 50% attrition rate during the bitter fighting during the period now known as "The battle of Britain" as these islands stood alone against the axis powers. Peter was an accomplished pilot with guile and cunning and obviously gifted with some lady luck ! - He survived !

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602 spitfire Squadron

Peter was also an accomplished musician playing sax ,trumpet and keyboards solo and with Dance bands of the era
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602 squadron showing off their spitfires

You might wonder Jim why an obscure Spitfire pilot has caught my attention , let me first introduce you to one of the patents that was issued to Peter Davey before we look one that was never going to be issued until hell froze over . (and why)

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This is a diagram taken from Peters first water heater (taken from Patent NZ92428 issued in 1950) it is somewhat reminiscent of an old beehive trimmer . Mains was connected and it heated water reasonably efficiently. One of the first rules for patenting anything Jim is 'keep it secret' Peter would have been very aware of that. He further developed the crude heater shown in 1950 unfortunately he broke the unwritten law. It went flying well over unity ! It was Peters intension to leave his invention as a legacy for his family but as you can imagine a simple COP>1 machine was never ever going to get a patent.
For over thirty years Peter's train just kept hitting the buffers. As a now sick man and in absolute desperation he committed the cardinal sin - He showed his contraption on National television in the hope that an investor would assist him in pressuring the patent office. He attempted to hide the operation of the heater very successfully as it happens,
I guess as a solo pilot at one time flying air sea recue you don't avoid packs of ME109s without a certain amount of guile.

Here is the clip that ratteled the powers that be

There is an awful lot going on here Jim and nothing much to do with rattling knifes and forks! at least not directly, very soon after I watched this clip I put two stainless steel spoons together in a jam jar full of water and plugged it into 240 v mains. It was never meant for public viewing but I did point a web cam at it, The meter is switched to 10 A full scale deflection. A little boring but its not meant to be entertainment ! NB - 1/ Unlike resistive heating its not a straight line graph. 2/ A thing I very foolishly missed that's really important is when the waters boiling furiously the current draw drops away to almost zero, watch it yourself

although the needles not easy to see you'' see it in the mirror.

I'm going to go over this contraption , I love what this guys done . what of water?

is it an insulator or a conductor ?

Have I made a very good capacitor ?
You saw water boiling furiously whilst drawing little or no current (little or no current = little or no power !!) now consider putting an indirect heating coil around a container boiling just like that and feeding a heating radiator. Ah we seem to have broken the law already Jim - shame ! Peter went much further and I love the crude engineering and cunning.
here then is the amazing truth just as the reporter says " as soon as the contraption touches water it boils" instantly (almost) Lol I wish I had the maths to make simple pressings of this machine and scale it - Perhaps you can ?
So here's what Peter's done . You have seen that when boiling no current is consumed here then is the twist , At what temperature does water boil ? 100deg C ? It depends Jim on air pressure

watch what happens up Everest . (for instance)

Indeed from my simple spoons demonstration Jim you can easily see the energy consumption is a 'bell curve'

boiling at various pressures

so at what temperature would water boil in a vacuum or partial vacuum ? and just how did peter create a vacuum ?

Let me invite you to watch this demonstration for school children

Jim because together they show just what Flight Lt Peter Daish Davey devised , I think when I put the pieces together for you you'll be an admirer too.
Do you start to get the picture I wonder ? to offer a clue when the distance between those spoons (remember the spoons ?) is closed right up the water boils locally and pretty much instantly ,

Watch then what happens to water in low air pressure


The players are all now on the stage Jim - lets see how Peter fitted them to their parts, when boiling little or no current is flowing is key.
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Do you see at the bottom of the bulb were the flat plate is welded to the stainless steel ball ? look carefully at the center of that plate . Do you see the rust ? That Jim is a hole right through the plate and into the ball itself. Its a small hole because the ball is a controlled and throttled vacuum. there are some more even smaller holes under the cap on top of the ball to control the pressure.
just the other side of that hole inside the ball is the positive plate, the ball itself being negative (or ground) which is the same thing. Watch the video again as Peter puts this contraption in water again, notice how he hesitates - a small amount of water is boiling between the plates and the ball is quickly filled with steam .

Peter hesitates until he see's the first wisp of steam (which comes out at pretty high pressure from under that top dome which is why its there)

he then puts the whole thing into the water,
The steam condenses and a partial vacuum is formed. The sequence is established. The energy transform is somewhat the reverse of the Trompe
from a electrical standpoint this is heating at series resonance - or if you like heating with reactive current, historically known as 'magnetic current or telluric current.
Clever little **** Peter don't ya think ? here are some video's and links in support and akin to this system

First from the school of Ronald Brandt (Tesla's last assistant who took refuge at Witts )

This is of course using what is (or isn't 'entrained in the water itself)

Jim Griggs uses a variation of this cavitation for his 170% efficent water heating

And of course water boiling with ridiculous ease at low pressure using plates . and even very low voltage.

Here I show water boiling furiously on a milliamp two in a partially evacuated jar

I'm sure you can now visualize whats inside the ball I made and experimented with however f.y.i heres a rough sketch of it -
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In practice I used carburetter jets top and bottom to give me variable adjust on the vacuum and so able to hold series resonance until very nearly boiling at one atmosphere .
interesting project and man to study.
 
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static zap

Regular EF Member
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I think someone’s spoon experiment had caused a rift in the space time continuum.
According to my “recent feeds” button, it knows what’s going to be posted tomorrow??!o_O
---"Saw your post and had to say something"---
Sorry my fault ,was thinking about Buzz and Klingons ,
must have interacted with a nearby cloaked vessel !
 
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Pete999

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Sorry my fault ,was thinking about Buzz and Klingons ,
must have interacted with a nearby cloaked vessel !
Far to many people using Warp Drive, caused the rift in time Mate, what we need is a visit from the Q continuum to sort stuff out, failing that form a time shift around the Forum and travel back in time.
 

Edtwozeronine

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I'd put money into bio-diesel production if I ever became rich, just look at how many diesel vehicles there already are on the road. Even if fossil fuel versions ran out, bio-diesel if carefully managed wouldn't.
 

darkwood

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So we have links to youtube video's (the world foremost respected education service) showing a device that make water bubble. This does not at all mean it is boiling, you can use very little amounts of electric to separate the hydrogen/oxygen bonds in water molecules and I suspect that is what is happening here if this is not a scam video, the fact the temperature is measured before and after and shows no change is a clear observation that thermal energy is not boiling the water so you have to take the observation that are made to come up with an alternative conclusion.
Isn't it funny how the 92yr old refuses to divulge how his experiment works unless he gets lots of funding, yet another crackpot duping the public with what is nothing more than a well known and understood process that can be scientifically shown and demonstrated.

These video links are not showing water boiling, far from it, they only show bubbles forming and nothing more, where is the steam? Boiling water would give off steam yet no steam is present so all we have here imho is the incorrect terminology 'boiling' been applied to a well known and understood process, you have to have a very larger energy input to boil water instantly in any real quantity, the energy is not there so the mass of the water is not showing a temperature rise thus this is not boiling water.
 

Archy Styrigg

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So we have links to youtube video's (the world foremost respected education service) showing a device that make water bubble. This does not at all mean it is boiling, you can use very little amounts of electric to separate the hydrogen/oxygen bonds in water molecules and I suspect that is what is happening here if this is not a scam video, the fact the temperature is measured before and after and shows no change is a clear observation that thermal energy is not boiling the water so you have to take the observation that are made to come up with an alternative conclusion.
Isn't it funny how the 92yr old refuses to divulge how his experiment works unless he gets lots of funding, yet another crackpot duping the public with what is nothing more than a well known and understood process that can be scientifically shown and demonstrated.

These video links are not showing water boiling, far from it, they only show bubbles forming and nothing more, where is the steam? Boiling water would give off steam yet no steam is present so all we have here imho is the incorrect terminology 'boiling' been applied to a well known and understood process, you have to have a very larger energy input to boil water instantly in any real quantity, the energy is not there so the mass of the water is not showing a temperature rise thus this is not boiling water.
It's a joke all this YouTube evidence.
I could knock up 'conclusive' proof that I can boil water @ 50degC by spending less than a tenner and wasting a few hours of my time :Do_O:Do_O
 

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