Discuss Pir/2391 in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net

K

Kensprint

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My dear wife has posed me a question which I could not fully answer. Perhaps someone here could provide the answer.

What percentage of electricians have C&G 2391 qualification? She works for a property management company which deals with schools and has doubts about the people carrying out and signing off Periodics. My understanding was that to carry out and sign off a Periodic you should have 2391.
 
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S

Spudmiester

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  • #2
I sign off periodics and dont have 2391. That doesnt mean I am any less capable.

Some big institutions like education departments, water companies, mines, councils etc will probably insist on it, BUT that is their own specification.
 
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Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
My dear wife has posed me a question which I could not fully answer. Perhaps someone here could provide the answer.

What percentage of electricians have C&G 2391 qualification? She works for a property management company which deals with schools and has doubts about the people carrying out and signing off Periodics. My understanding was that to carry out and sign off a Periodic you should have 2391.
Like Spud said, there is no formal requirement to hold 2391 to carry out PIR's. The requirement is COMPETENCE, i.e. sufficient knowledge, experience etc

And as said, many organisations insist on it, but it is not even mentioned in BS7671 or GN3.

In answer to your question, I believe the figure is somewhere around 10-15%, but his would include all electrical installers, including mates etc
 
K

Kensprint

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  • #4
Interesting. My background is in Pharmaceutical industry. 2391 is required for anyone doing testing. I assumed it was standard. Take your point about competence though.

My wife is concerned that she on occasion receives 2 Periodic reports on separate schools carried out on the same day and signed off by the same person. She feels that a/ the work is not being carried out to the extent agreed and b/the people carrying out the work may not be competent as the person signing off could not possibly carry out 2 periodics in that timeframe
 
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Spudmiester

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Two in one day ! Sounds a bit too quick to me.

Suppose it would depend on the extent of the works and the size of school, but I recon it would take me a GOOD couple of days to do a small primary school PROPERLY.

Or has the bloke got his mate to do the other one and he signs them both off.
 
G

greekislandlover

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  • #6
Depends on the setup of the organisation. In our case, his nibs will review them and sign them off as qualifying manager. He might leave them on his desk and do several at once, in which case having several with the same date on for the same organisation on one day would not be untoward. It might have taken several days to do the inspections.
 
I'm doing periodic testing at schools at the moment, it usually takes 2 of us about 2 days to identify and label circuits then about 2 to 3 days to test, most of these schools have about 20 classrooms plus kitchen,hall,offices etc.
I don't have 2391 either but can test because the council i'm with is in the NICEIC which means they have a supervisor to check the test results and sign them off.
hope this helps
 
Is the electrical reference site still in the process of being populated? It has the potential to be a good site. Who and how is the information put on the site?

Thanks
 

ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
Interesting. My background is in Pharmaceutical industry. 2391 is required for anyone doing testing. I assumed it was standard. Take your point about competence though.

My wife is concerned that she on occasion receives 2 Periodic reports on separate schools carried out on the same day and signed off by the same person. She feels that a/ the work is not being carried out to the extent agreed and b/the people carrying out the work may not be competent as the person signing off could not possibly carry out 2 periodics in that timeframe
Sounds a bit worrying that they can do 2 schools in a day, what do they do just turn up have a quick look say yeh thats ok.

Have heard of companies doing 2 houses in a day but 2 schools no chance:eek:

What if a child gets electrocuted after they said that the installation was satisfactory and upon investigation later it is not, not only could they be prosecuted but could they live with the fact that they knowing could have killed a child.
 
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R

Rob

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
I carry out PIRs myself and I dont have my 2391... yet. As said above, its all down to understanding what your doing inside out.

That said I dont know everything, but if im unsure about something i'll contact a more experienced sparkie, call the NICEIC helpline (everyone can call even if your not a NICEIC member) or even ask the opinions of people on forums like this.

Ive read things in the past about people doing PIRs in a couple of hours. Good luck to them. Personally if my signatures going on the bottom of the certificate I will be doing everything to make sure ive inspected and tested everything thoroughly.
 
L

lost-sole

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
Ive been looking for a change of employer and saw an ad on job centre plus site where this firm were wanting testers and you were required to do 4 per day no mention of the paper work. I ve heard of property surveyors doing drive by surveys and reckon thats what this firm must be doing!!!
 
T

tony.towa

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  • #13
Have only just found this thread for the first time.

I carried out T & I for years before taking my 2391 last year and apart from now having a certificate to say I am competant very little has changed.

I work to a basic set of rules, which have not changed since I started testing.

First rule - Testing takes as long as necessary to carry it out. Customers are given an approximate idea of how long it will take but informed it may take longer, depending on how accurate any existing circuit identification is and that there are no major problems encountered during testing.

Second rule - It's my signature that's going on the certificate so I need to be satisfied the testing has been done correctly. If anybody else wants to tell me what to do they can sign it.
 
W

wayne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
i've left this thread alone but tony hit upon on an essential of a PIR ;it takes as long as takes.
i couldn't commit to 4 a day and we who do them know why
 

ian.settle1

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Mentor
Arms
Have only just found this thread for the first time.

I carried out T & I for years before taking my 2391 last year and apart from now having a certificate to say I am competant very little has changed.

I work to a basic set of rules, which have not changed since I started testing.

First rule - Testing takes as long as necessary to carry it out. Customers are given an approximate idea of how long it will take but informed it may take longer, depending on how accurate any existing circuit identification is and that there are no major problems encountered during testing.

Second rule - It's my signature that's going on the certificate so I need to be satisfied the testing has been done correctly. If anybody else wants to tell me what to do they can sign it.

I agree with Tony on both accounts here as you are the person testing the installation and it is signature which is on it. so if something drastic happens and somone is hurt it will be you that they come looking for not your boss who you work for.:eek:
 
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