Discuss Plastic cladded ceiling in bathroom and downlighters in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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sbelec

Hi,

Sorry of the length of this but I have given it some thought but am looking to see if I have forgotten anything. Scenario:
Customer having a new bathroom and having Bruynzeel 10mm plasic cladding fitted on to a timber frame (25mm deep) and wants downlighters fitted.

1. Am fitting a hagar maintainence free junction box in place of current light fitting and taking the switched live, nuetral and earth through a fused RCD spur. Can't put RCD at fuse box to protect all lights due to location and this would comply with part P in a simple manner.

2. Am fitting 10watt led downlighters IP66 and fire rated to the new cladding, I believe that these will be suitable due to the very low heat generation based on some in my kitchen which barely feel warm to the touch after 4 hours. This will stop moisture penetration into the void which comes under part uck of the building regs.

3. Fitting fire hoods in the roof space over the holes in the plaster ceilings. This gives me a fire barrier into the roof space as I am assuming that the BS 476, part 7, Class 1Y rating of the cladding is not as good as plaster board and I will not be able to use the light fittings to maintain the fire integrity of the plaster board.

Yet again both neither the manufacturers have been worse than useless, just like manrose who's instruction manual says that a timer fan switched by the light must go through a double pole fused switch unit and when asked which of the 2 live wires went though the fuse got a big fat - speak to an electrician!

Anything I have missed? Thoughts would be appreciated from the collective.


steve
 
Hi,

Sorry of the length of this but I have given it some thought but am looking to see if I have forgotten anything. Scenario:
Customer having a new bathroom and having Bruynzeel 10mm plasic cladding fitted on to a timber frame (25mm deep) and wants downlighters fitted.

1. Am fitting a hagar maintainence free junction box in place of current light fitting and taking the switched live, nuetral and earth through a fused RCD spur. Can't put RCD at fuse box to protect all lights due to location and this would comply with part P in a simple manner.

2. Am fitting 10watt led downlighters IP66 and fire rated to the new cladding, I believe that these will be suitable due to the very low heat generation based on some in my kitchen which barely feel warm to the touch after 4 hours. This will stop moisture penetration into the void which comes under part uck of the building regs.

3. Fitting fire hoods in the roof space over the holes in the plaster ceilings. This gives me a fire barrier into the roof space as I am assuming that the BS 476, part 7, Class 1Y rating of the cladding is not as good as plaster board and I will not be able to use the light fittings to maintain the fire integrity of the plaster board.

Yet again both neither the manufacturers have been worse than useless, just like manrose who's instruction manual says that a timer fan switched by the light must go through a double pole fused switch unit and when asked which of the 2 live wires went though the fuse got a big fat - speak to an electrician!

Anything I have missed? Thoughts would be appreciated from the collective.


steve

No comments on your plan , but Vortice fans do not stipulate a fcu, only a switch with 3mm separation . This may help ease your task.
 
Are you sure it's a fused switch? I would've thought a triple pole switch should be used. Assuming your supplying the fan from a lighting circuit.
 
A triple pole switch is only required if there is no natural light into the room, the theory being that if the room has no natural light through a window then the light must always be used. If you isolate the supply then the light is out. Its another load of garbage, find me a spark that doesn't carry lights or we'd never get anything done! The manual actual requires a 3 amp fuse, but then you either put the fuse in the light feed and before the split to permanent live / switched live and then the bathroom light will go out if the fuse blows! I copied an extract back and got speak to an electrician.
 
A lot of vectaire fans are now internally fused so you can get away with a triple pole isolator on its own, if you search you will find a lot of threads relating to this
 
Just put your switch live and perm live through the rcd fcu. I dont understand why you would fit fire hoods, when your lights are fire rated anyway!!! Is there anyone living/sleeping above the downlights?

Jay

Just to add to the other comments regarding the fan, Greenwood fans dont need the fuse down rating, just a 3 pole switch.
 
No, it is a roof space. The fire integrity of the light fittings is based on fitment to the plastic which has an unknown comparable fire resistance, so in theory the lamp could fall and leave the hole to the roof space. Fire hoods also protect against insulation.
That was my theory, belt and braces I suppose.
 
Was also under the impression that fire protection was still required to stop fire leaping through the roof space into other areas?
 
why is it people think that "fire rated" is to do with the insulation fire risk or risk of fire from the fitting ?

it has nothing to do with that.. and the fact you have a loft space above there is no need to fit fire rated fittings full stop .

fit proper LED fittings like Halers or Aurora I9's

no risk of lamps "falling out", or being changed to halogens after...
 
Sorry, was thinking of the entire fitting falls if the plastic ceiling melted in a fire situation and this would leave the hole through the plasterboard. Insulation has to be kept away from the downlights in a way that still allows for insulation cover, I have just used the hood to stop the insulation being physically on the downlighter rather than a bridge.
I come from an industrial background with explosive dust and fire protection was such that any void over adjacent fire compartments had to be belt and braces to avoid fire entering the void and then entering the next compartment. Equipment through walls had to have fire doors on both sides and so on. I have just always assumed similar would apply in housing, look at any bad house fire and I will guarantee there is damage to the adjoining house which has gone through the roof void. Interesting you say that roof spaces do not require protection to stop fire ingress.
Was going for LEDlite fittings which cannot be changed to any other lamp configuration.

Many thanks for taking the time to comment, like I said belt and braces but does not seem to be any objections to my approach.

much appreciated
steve
 
I see Steve :)

Nothing wrong with going over the top ! The safer the better lol

Those Ledlite fittings look similar to the haler fittings anyway

So all should be good

Doesn't that plastic ceiling look ghastly though ?
 
With regards to the recessed lights are they GU10? if so then a standard halogen can be fitted and the ceiling mus be rated for the heat generated from these lamps regardless of the LEDs or CFL you may fit... you leave customer decides not bright enough then fits cheap 50w ....
 
Darkwood, no fittings are led constructed so they cannot change lamp they would have to change entire fitting.

Many thanks to all
 
bear in mind that the roof space above is still the same "fire compartment" as the bathroom and the rest of the house, so hoods and/or fire rated fittings are not necessary. nothing wrong with fitting fire rated ones though. as for the 3A fusing of the fan, most fan's instructions stipulate a fuse in the perm. L only.
 

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