Portable Generator (Health & Safety Query)

[Grizp800]

Hi all,

Firstly, apologies if this thread is in the incorrect area of the forums.

I'm currently undertaking a degree in Health & Safety - I'm about to begin an assignment in which a portable generator was housed in a confined space, which, ultimately led to the death of an individual through carbon monoxide poisoning.

Would anybody be able to help in answering some questions;

Do portable generators have to be PA Tested?

Do portable generators have to be installed by a qualified tradesman (i.e. similar to gas engineers etc)?

I understand that generators come under the PUWER.

Any advice appreciated - thanks,

Griz.

 

[davesparks]

In my opinion no, they don't have to be PA tested because they are not an appliance I the electrical sense, they are a source of power.

They should be inspected, tested and serviced in accordance with manufacturers recommendations and whatever risk assessments, safe systems of work etc are in place.

Portable generators arent normally installed, otherwise they wouldn't be portable. They can be used by anyone without any training.

If someone doesn't have enough sense to not set up a combustion engine in an enclosed space without proper air intake and exhaust handling then they aren't going to live very long anyway.

 

[James]

similar to running your car in the garage at home, do it long enough with the door closed and you won’t live to tell the tale.

The manufacturers instructions for the car will tell you not to do this but if you are stupid enough to do it, I doubt you have read the instructions from cover to cover.

 

[Lister1987]

Portable generators not come under BS7909 as temporary power, if so there might be a good place to look

 

[Strima]

PUWER for a start. EAWR would be the over arching regulation. When was the equipment last serviced and inspected

Manufacturers instructions also need to be considered as they I’ll state ventilation requirements and distances between intake and exhaust.

competency and currency also needs to be taken into account, was the operative trained on the equipment And when I was this training done?

was the supervisor trained on the equipment? Who conducted the risk assessment and were they adequate experienced to do so?

what pressures were in place to get the equipment powered up? Was adequate time given to the task?

I do like a good RCA.
[automerge]1590281996[/automerge]
And yes, I’ve had a few beers hence the shocking sad pulling.

 

[marconi]

You might want to search for the Coroner's report on this incident or one similar; they normally make some insightful observations.

Using the google search phrase 'death by generator in confined space' many reports come up. Here is just one:

NIOSH FACE Program: Wisconsin Case Report 92WI119 | CDC/NIOSH - https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/face/stateface/wi/92wi119.html

It is surprising what some folk don't know - that combustion engines produce dangerous exhaust gases for example. Then why or how should they know?

 

[pc1966]

It is surprising what some folk don't know - that combustion engines produce dangerous exhaust gases for example. Then why or how should they know?

Generally I would assume that most adults would know of the risks of engines given that it appears from time to time in films as a means of suicide (e.g. attempted in The Full Monty in black humour) or has been referenced at times in relation to the holocaust (e.g. Schindler's List) and the general environmental concerns of transport pollution.

But from time to time i get unpleasantly reminded of the difference between my world (and probably most of the folk on this forum) when has a strong technical/education background and the "general public".

And that is why we have mandatory H&S training for things that most of us see as bloody obvious, but obviously has been bloody for some folk before.

 

[davesparks]

It is surprising what some folk don't know - that combustion engines produce dangerous exhaust gases for example. Then why or how should they know?

It is taught in school chemistry lessons so I think it's fair to say that every person has been given the information.

 

[marconi]

When I was a teenager the parish priest asked me to visit an elderly parishioner to change a lamp in the pendant of her lounge. She had the lamp ready but did not do it herself. I asked why not? She said she was worried that when she removed the old lamp all the electricity would fall out, shower her and kill her. A cogent, sensible, numerate person but she just did not know enough about electricity.

 

[Marvo]

Portable generators are designed for use by untrained and unskilled people and it would be stated in the manufacturers instructions along with the dozens of other warnings that it isn't suitable for indoor use. These instructions would have come with the generator when it was purchased and would also usually be available as a pdf download on the manufacturers and/or distributors website. Sometimes there's even stickers on the actual device itself.

There are times where manufacturers instructions aren't included with a device or they're so poorly translated from another language they're not intelligable or downright incorrect but I'd guess in that case that the device wouldn't achieve the required legal standard to be on sale in the first place and was sold illegally due to lack of compliance.

 

[Simon47]

A few things have not yet been stated (or asked). For the specific case, was this a work related incident, or non-work - it makes a different in terms of what law applies.
If it was a work thing, then all the work related regs would kick in - with H&SAW Act coming high up the list. You'd expect the responsible person to have done (or had done) a risk assessment and come up with instructions to be followed by the operator/users to avoid the (to us, obvious) dangers. There should also have been adequate supervision to ensure that safe working methods were actually being used.
But if it's (as I vaguely recall reading about a few years ago) someone doing DIY in a house, and running a genny in the basement where they are working because there's no mains yet - then most of the regs applying to workplaces just don't apply.

 

[David Prosser]

Two men died in 2007 at Tewkesbury rugby club using a petrol generator to run a submersible pump to clear out the flooded basement. Initial reports had them as electrocuted but it turned out they were overcome by the fumes. I'd only been working with the son a few days earlier.

 

[littlespark]

Another tale from my caravan park days....
There was one person died from carbon monoxide poisoning because theyd set up a gas heater or barbecue or something inside their awning with no ventilation.

It made the trade magazine, all the tourism brochures carried warnings.. we were given hundreds of leaflets to hand out... but still, other people did it.

You can have all the h&s in the world, and somebody, somewhere will ignore it

 

[UNG]

Having read through this thread it reminds me of a very close call many years ago. Did some work that another contractor had subbed to us as it was way off his patch, it involved installing hand dryers and associated spur units that were leased.
This particular premises was a new build car showroom towards the end of the day I was doing the final routing and connections to a DB located in a storeroom that had a gas boiler in while working in the room I started to feel a bit nauseous and very hot and bothered but put it down to being a very warm day in a steel clad building by the time I had finished and packed up I was feeling quite ill managed to get home and had something to eat and took a couple of paracetamol and drank plenty of water thinking I may just be dehydrated after an hour or so felt a bit better so went to bed got up the following morning feeling just as bad as I had when I left site the following day. Decided to ring a scuba diving mate of mine who is a GP at his surgery and ran through the symptoms and he confirmed my thoughts of carbon monoxide and told me to go straight to an A&E and get them to test for CO poisoning, spent most of the day in a cubicle on oxygen while they did the checks to confirm CO poisoning was told I had a very close call and the source needed to be investigated. Rang the car showroom and told them what had happened and suggested that they needed to investigate a couple of days later got a call telling me that they could not find any carbon monoxide issues in the building.
Some 10 to 12 years later I happened to be driving down a road alongside the car showroom and could see why that room had a high level of CO on that day, the fan that draws the car exhaust fumes out of the workshop had it's outlet right next to the area of the building that the room was located and below the roofline capping of the steel cladding giving any fumes easy access to the building
Always make a walk around the outside of building part of my risk assessment now looking for flues and vent pipes

 

[marconi]

I seem to remember - could be wrong - that carbon monoxide is odourless.

 

[UNG]

I seem to remember - could be wrong - that carbon monoxide is odourless.

You are correct