Post or No Post....

[ebow72]

Hello one and all, I don't know how this post will go down,but I am going to post it anyway....

I have been a member on here for about a year now, posted some good posts, annoying posts and some I am not so sure, looking back on them now...
I try and treat this forum as an extension of my place of work (If I had one) and I read nearly every new post posted on a daily basis and trawl through the old ones I think it may benefit me.
I have a very enquiring mind and want to know this, that and the other, so It's been a valuable reference guide for me.

With the work based element now almost non existent and practical in the college kept to a minimum due to costs, it's a wonder anyone will ever qualify again..but there are those out there who are eager, inquisitive and just have the desire to succeed.

SO, when I am not 100% sure about something whether it be a reg, requirement or just general info, I will always come here, but of late I haven't really bothered when I have read some of the post replies by some forum members, this ranges from members to EA members.
I am so grateful to all the members who have replied and assisted me over the year and I have tried to repay, by helping others who were I was a year ago. If I can I will help, If I feel the post is a waste of time, I won't bother with it...I'll take my bad day out on something else...


I think what I am trying to say, I don't understand what gives some people the right to have a go at someone for posting an already existing post, ridicule their grammar and sometimes just borderline abuse.Don't get me wrong I don't understand this text speak either and maybe forum etiquette should be you post in good old fashioned English and you might get a more adult reply...
I am not saying a bit of harmless fun doesn't go a long way and I used to banter with the lads,believe me I am game for a laugh, but some of the lads on here are quite young and haven't quite grasped it yet.



I am not having a go at anyone in particular and hope no one takes offence to this post, ultimately we were all in the same boat at some point and I reckon a big pat on the back has to go out to all concerned with the forum, it's a cracking site.

Thanks all,

Ian

 

[ian.goddard57]

Ian,

Just wanted to say thanks for putting this up. I'm new on the site and a bit warey of putting things up after seeing some pretty cutting remarks on previous forums. I feel that people who bother to go on forums like this are striving to be better. Looking for knowledge and help to achieve this. Some are not.

Nice one mate

 

[Rockingit]

I think the bottom line here is the same with most things in life: you get out what you put in. Some of us are regulars to a greater or lesser degree, some I think must have actually morphed into electrons as they do seem to literally live on here (but curiously still find the time to go out and work?!) and others like yourselves who use it as a reference and knowledge centre.

I think the single largest failing of the users of this site is simply honesty - those who have been around in the industry for 40+ years can tell straight away that the post from the new member who claims to be all qualified and competent is in fact little more than a chancer - so what's the point?! Honesty gets respect and useful cooperation, dishonesty does tend to get the distain and ridicule it deserves.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I'm a bit tired to take all that in...

Don't despair too much, admittedly there has been a recent trend of people not answering 'course' questions, but that's in the hope that they'll think for themselves and thereby learn more.

Don't let anyone wind you up, EF is a great resource and regularly a good laugh!


Peace. :hippy::sunny:

 

[Amp David]

I think a lot of the frustration and the so called unwillingness to help from regular members, is down to the fact that most newcomers or members who don't post that frequently don't seem to bother using the search tool. Most days there are posts that are the same as the day or two before.

Aswell as the recent course Qs, its also the 1 post wonders who ask such a stupid or basic question, then when given sensible advice, take the hump and start giving grief out to all who have advised them.

 

[Spudnik]

We always encourage new members to participate and to become part of the community.

We are supposed to be all in it together and it does get very tiring when some members feel the need to 'go too far'.

It has been said a million times before, if anyone does not want to help then move on.

If anyone feels a post is out of order, then report it, and it can be dealt with accordingly.

We do NOT tolerate abuse towards other members, new or old, and with that there is now a 'three strikes rule'.

I will remove ANYONE who i feel is stepping out of line.

If any member has a problem with this, my PM box is always open.

 

[ebow72]

Thank you all, time for some breakfast before the footy kicks off...

 

[cogsey133]

As a relative newbie myself i think the forum is a great place and agreed some people go to far. With that said however it should be remembered that people are different and my method of doing something may differ from another sparks.....hence arguments can arise so long as it is not personal then i have no issue with it. Guess what i am getting at is that if someone posts a comment it can easily be misinterpreted and so abuse follows. Time should be taken to read the posts and perhaps ask for clarification if you think a post is getting personal. I do agree however some posts are blatantly personal and there is simply no need for that

 

[MJM]

I'm a bit wary about posting some of my questions but that is because I'm a newby and I'll admit it!! I wish I'd done an apprenticeship instead of going into IT. The fact is I didn't and now I want to be a sparky, there just seems to be so many hoops to jump through to get properly qualified now (all I have is the lvl 2 C&Gs + EAL Part P), and at the age of 33 it is impossible to do an apprenticeship and is also proving very difficult to get anyone to take me on as a trainee ... Are so many companies really struggling at the moment or is it just the stock answer you give when asked if you take on trainees?? I will always respect any advice from an experienced spark though and it is much appreciated that you share your knowledge and experience freely on here!

 

[ebow72]

I'm a bit wary about posting some of my questions but that is because I'm a newby and I'll admit it!! I wish I'd done an apprenticeship instead of going into IT. The fact is I didn't and now I want to be a sparky, there just seems to be so many hoops to jump through to get properly qualified now (all I have is the lvl 2 C&Gs + EAL Part P), and at the age of 33 it is impossible to do an apprenticeship and is also proving very difficult to get anyone to take me on as a trainee ... Are so many companies really struggling at the moment or is it just the stock answer you give when asked if you take on trainees?? I will always respect any advice from an experienced spark though and it is much appreciated that you share your knowledge and experience freely on here!

MJM, Everyone is wary about posting to start with, as I guess we feel we are asking stupid questions, but at the end of the day, we are only asking, we can either post or not post and it's not a bad thing to ask questions either, better than keeping quiet and doing something your not sure about. Countless mistakes are made from being unsure and just through not listening. I understand the more experienced spark not wanting to give us a straight answer, but as explained elsewhere, they are wanting the OP to use their grey matter and look and find out for themselves. Which I wouldn't expect anything else really....
I am 39 now, finished my level 3 and waiting for a placement to do my Level 3 NVQ, so my chances of an apprenticeship are long gone, it's no big deal, I'll qualify another way. Don't be disheartened about it, if you study like crazy, send CV's to every man and his dog, it will happen. It's not easy I admit,but it's the choice we made to improve our life's, so we either carry on in a cr&p job or do something we have a passion for.
Just out of interest, I am at college and I am doing the level 3 through EAL too, to be honest I think they are a load of rubbish, but it's still a qual. But I am interested in how you got a EAL Part P, as it's not a qual, it's a competent persons scheme ran by the likes of ELECSA and Napit etc, you have to pay for the privilege too. I won't go in to too much as there are posts galore on here about it. But I was wondering what exactly you have from EAL Part P, if you don't mind sharing.

Cheers

Ian

 

[brman]

I think the EAL part P referred to is a level 2 course covering the basics of domestic theory with a bit of practical wiring and testing, like this....
Part P Courses Birmingham

 

[oldtimer]

Well guys after 36 years in this trade my thoughts are and always will be standards/safety but one point I have to make is my old manager used to say son you are not here to be liked you are here to learn and I dont like a sloppy approach to the job so if you are going to take it personally or go in the huff then more fool you and if you dont come up to the standard I expect well be advised you do not need me to show you were the door is because learning to be an electrician takes a lot of learning and responsability so if you cannot manage that then goodbye because at the end of the day electricity can kill and I will not give you a license to kill (no pun intended)

So 36 years later listen up learners if you expect to learn anything on this forum well here is my deal and no doubt a lot of others as well when you post be polite dont use text speak add as much information you can being concise and yes add a picture now if a member gives you a critic then dont go crying and reply with the everybody is out to get me speech remember if you want to learn then get humble.

As for me I have said this before every day is a school day I am always learning and I came on this forum to get and share knowledge and not to take my ego (if I had one ) out for a run so if you are the sensitive type then let me save you from wasting your time on this forum electricity is a serious business and if you want to play the "Hoodie Guy" then get yourself a big dog that will drag you around your housing scheme because you sure as hell wont get a hug on this forum.

Electricians get a hard time from other trades mostly due to envy and jealousy and they think we are stand offish because they think they know better on how a job should be done but we have a legal responsability ie we go to jail if we do not do the job right and I need not remind you of the handyman who disconnected a cooker lead only for a 2 year old to put it in his mouth when it was switched on his excuse was ignorance and we dont get that as a get out of jail card.

So am I going to treat you any different well a lot of you know my answer to that NO because thats the deal you make and thats the deal I made 36 years ago.

Let me leave you with this a guy who served his time under me asked is that circuit isolated and i said yes he then proceeded to check it out and test it his workmate said dont you trust your old tradesman and he said no I dont he said well word got around and somebody decided to embarass him in front of me saying thats terrible not trusting your old tradesman and he replied well its my life on the line and I trust no one but myself a guy pipped up and said where did you get that attitude from and my ex apprentice pointed to me.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Let me leave you with this a guy who served his time under me asked is that circuit isolated and i said yes he then proceeded to check it out and test it his workmate said dont you trust your old tradesman and he said no I dont

I agree and disagree with this comment. Some periodics I do, I often need help from guys I trust. So when I'm on a walkie talkie. I expect the person on the other end to know what I'm talking about.

Having said that, I normally double check before sticking my fingers onto anything suspicious.

One strike and they're out. So no mistakes from either end of the cable

 

[oldtimer]

I agree and disagree with this comment. Some periodics I do, I often need help from guys I trust. So when I'm on a walkie talkie. I expect the person on the other end to know what I'm talking about.

Having said that, I normally double check before sticking my fingers onto anything suspicious.

One strike and they're out. So no mistakes from either end of the cable

Having said that you check?????? is that not the same as what I have just said trust no one hence why I am still alive today and worst still the standards today are a lot lower

 

[ackbarthestar]

Having said that you check?????? is that not the same as what I have just said trust no one hence why I am still alive today and worst still the standards today are a lot lower

You did, but it read as though you didn't.

I must admit that I do double check. The one time I didn't I got a belt.

 

[Guest111]

You did, but it read as though you didn't.

I must admit that I do double check. The one time I didn't I got a belt.

so did my last apprentice before i retired,he didn,t check, it was dead but he got a belt off me for not checking.now when I hear him telling the young uns off where he works for things i told him off for it makes all the effort i put in worthwhile in fact I feel quite proud of the way he turned out.

 

[MJM]

MJM, Everyone is wary about posting to start with, as I guess we feel we are asking stupid questions, but at the end of the day, we are only asking, we can either post or not post and it's not a bad thing to ask questions either, better than keeping quiet and doing something your not sure about. Countless mistakes are made from being unsure and just through not listening. I understand the more experienced spark not wanting to give us a straight answer, but as explained elsewhere, they are wanting the OP to use their grey matter and look and find out for themselves. Which I wouldn't expect anything else really....
I am 39 now, finished my level 3 and waiting for a placement to do my Level 3 NVQ, so my chances of an apprenticeship are long gone, it's no big deal, I'll qualify another way. Don't be disheartened about it, if you study like crazy, send CV's to every man and his dog, it will happen. It's not easy I admit,but it's the choice we made to improve our life's, so we either carry on in a cr&p job or do something we have a passion for.
Just out of interest, I am at college and I am doing the level 3 through EAL too, to be honest I think they are a load of rubbish, but it's still a qual. But I am interested in how you got a EAL Part P, as it's not a qual, it's a competent persons scheme ran by the likes of ELECSA and Napit etc, you have to pay for the privilege too. I won't go in to too much as there are posts galore on here about it. But I was wondering what exactly you have from EAL Part P, if you don't mind sharing.

Cheers

Ian

Ian, the course brman referred you to is what I meant. Is the level 3 you're doing at college the 2330?

 

[ebow72]

I am doing 2357 at college,done all the theory now, just a few practical units and the NVQ level 3 to complete, thats the work based evidence part of the course.I don't know a right lot about it yet, so will post about it when I do..
Quite misleading that really, well mentioning the Part P bit in the qual...but I see what you mean now, how long does the course last for?

 

[Adam W]

I think the 'extension of the workplace' analogy is a good one:
Consider a new guy turning up to work on his first day:
He could arrive very aware that he is the new guy and doesn't know anyone, doesn't know the company ways of doing things, and will politely ask if he doesn't know something.
After a few days/weeks/after he has made an impression, the stigma of being the new guy will wear off and he will be accepted by his co-workers.

Then there are the older guys who may have been working for the company for years who can get away with a bit of backchat, flippant remarks and a bit of slacking off.
If the new guy tried this on his first day people wouldn't like it, least of all the boss, and he'd probably be shown the door.
Likewise the gobby know-it-all apprentice is guaranteed to be taken down a few pegs with a bit extra on top, then have it made clear to them who is in charge.
This is what the tutors at my college used to do - on the first day they'd get all the students sat in the same room in orderly rows for an introduction to the course, with all the tutors standing behind desks in front of the whiteboard wearing shirts, ties and college staff ID badges. Anyone misbehaving even slightly would be publicly humiliated. This is in contrast to some of the 'express' courses where you are just told you're the best.

There are also the 'blaggers' who claim to be and are paid to be much more qualified and experienced than they actually are, and try to blag their way through jobs by asking basic questions from the more experienced guys. An apprentice or adult trainee may be able to get away with asking basic questions, but if they're being paid the same amount they should have a similar capability. They might think they're doing a good job off fooling everyone, but they're fooling no-one.

Same with internet forums - until you know the score just keep your head down, be polite and lay off the bulsh and you should be fine.
On the other hand someone who storms in trying to tell everyone what's what, not listening to what they're being told and generally putting a cat among the pigeons can almost be guaranteed a flaming and will more than likely end up storming off in a blaze of sour grapes.
I've seen it happen before and it will happen again.