It already exists.Nobø Front 400V | Nobo
en.nobo.no
Are the coils 400 volts or just multiple 230 volt coils?
Discuss Practicality of 400 volt equipment in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
It already exists.Nobø Front 400V | Nobo
en.nobo.no
I have absolutely no idea why you disagree with @Julie. and your response is quite frankly ridiculous.Your reasoning shows no essence just random wording.
Right.
400 volt rated switches, sockets and light fittings.
Two and 3 pole breakers are already slash rated 230/400Y.
Well I thought it made sense!
It is still possible to use any voltage you want to suit your purpose, yes there are standards such as 230/400, or 380/660, or 1000v as per iec 60038.
However the 230/400 is most common purely because for the most part the current levels are manageable i.e cable sizes, the insulation needs are not onourous and most simple circuit breaker technologies can handle it.
That's why it has become the standard from all the options.
In the same way three phase makes the most sense - its more efficient than single or two phase, but also no less efficient than 4, 5,6,7.... phase.
Does that make it clearer?
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There are lots of equipment that is single phase 400v - but its usually just in industrial settings, for example control transformers are usually phase to phase as there often isn't a neutral.
I took the op to mean why don't we use 400v across the board as standard rather than 230v
In terms of iec equipment 230/400 refers to 230v ph - e/n and 400v ph-ph
They are only suitable for 400v if they are multiple pole.
A 400v element is inside it along with 400v controllerAre the coils 400 volts or just multiple 230 volt coils?
A 400v element is inside it along with 400v controller
We manufacture it for the Scandinavian market
6 phase is actually more efficent, but I've read that its not worth the extra complexity.
If we were to mass produce 400 volt consumer products, would it be more expensive than 230 volt consumer was my primary questions- though its not really confined to that only. Anything and everything is open to discussion around this subject.
True. The only thing that will need to be re-designed are single pole switches.
Not really, the whole wiring systems are designed around 230/400v rather than 400v
Switches and breakers are the most obvious, but my whole point is there are and have been other voltages, but the balance of advantages/disadvantages appears to work out around the 230/400v mark which is why it has ended up being the voltage range of choice.
It may be that as technology advances, and we develop new materials, that this balance may actually move to higher, or lower voltages than it currently is, but then do you redevelop everything for a marginal gain.
Where it isn't a marginal gain, then equipment is chosen at different voltages - but such a choice comes at a cost.
I have worked on many sites where all industrial equipment is at 660v, 1000v, 1.5kV or 3.3kV etc in order to reduce the current over large distances, however the cost is limited choice of switchgear, cables etc.
Ultimately its best to have a single standard, which whilst isn't the most efficient in all cases is sufficiently efficient that the advantage of simplicity outweighs the complexity of multiple standards
You're forgetting the history. The world started off with 110-127 volts. Eventually 127/220 in that 110-127 volts was just to low as it could not meet the needs to heaters and motors. Then came the discovery that the advantages associated with 220 volt could be extended to small equipment and associated branch circuits. 220 became the norm- hence why the schuko plug is not polarised.
When 220 volts became the norm for all single phase equipment, people realized that 220/380 met the needs of ever larger motors in typical buildings and long public supplies.
The thing is, today we are stuck on a dual voltage system without any investigation made if 400 volt single phase equipment might be more practical than 230 volt equipment.
No, not forgetting, but the first generation and distribution of electricity was in the uk in the 1880s it distributed ac 250v and 40v for different types of lighting.
I think it was in Godalming
Next was 110v dc in London
I certainly don't think we arrived at ~230v by accident without any thought, in Germany for example they specifically altered all their equipment from 127v to 240v to take advantage of the lower current, without too many issues with high voltage - other countries followed similar changes settling at various voltages mainly in the 200-250v for household and higher for industrial.
The compromise of 230v is fairly recent in those terms
Write to the iet or iec and ask them.What investigation is there of 400 volts?
You would not need 2 pole switching except at the consumer unit.
For functionality you are correct, for safety I would disagree.
It doesn't have to be two legs of a 400/230V system. One night, the DNO could uplift your local 400/230V transformer and drop a 690/400 in its place, and presto! 400V Uo in your house.
Switchovers from one voltage or frequency to another and DC to AC have all been done before. When the National Grid drove a rollout of standardised voltage and frequency, electricity suppliers would take your appliances and either modify them for the new supply or replace it if not possible, just as gas appliances were converted from town gas to natural gas. In the museum we have appliances originally made for non-standard voltages that have been reworked and the new voltage engraved onto the plate. E.g. a Hoover vacuum cleaner made for 210V that had a replacement armature fitted and '240V' stamped over the 210. Until recently, a church with a 1920s organ blower wound for 200V was running it from 400 via a transformer supplied and fitted in the 1940s at the electricity supplier's cost. Sites with large inventories of DC plant used to install rectifiers to keep it all running when the mains were converted to AC.
The greater number of appliances in use today and the impracticality of converting most of them makes a repeat of that exercise near impossible, though.
What safety comes from using a wall switch as a disconnecting means?
But in the context that started this off, getting rid of combined neutral & earth, doing that wouldn't really help.It doesn't have to be two legs of a 400/230V system. One night, the DNO could uplift your local 400/230V transformer and drop a 690/400 in its place, and presto! 400V Uo in your house.
Indeed, but back then there weren't huge numbers of appliances - and what there were would have been "properly built". As you point out ...Switchovers from one voltage or frequency to another and DC to AC have all been done before.
Indeed. Though I'd have gone further than "near impossible" ! I couldn't see it being done in any other way than lots of transformers. Just a very quick count around the house quickly heads up past 50, before I've included lights and fixed stuff like the boiler. Quite a lot of fixed stuff - PIR detectors, lights, heating controls, pumps, and the list goes on and on.The greater number of appliances in use today and the impracticality of converting most of them makes a repeat of that exercise near impossible, though.
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