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Hi all
The manager of my local has been begging the owners to do something about the state of the wiring in the pub, I am, as some would say a Electrical Trainee DI so know nothing on the regs regarding pubs. I have seen an open ceiling rose with a cable extended to the light over the pool table, this ceiling rose is in easy reach of an extended arm and therfore totally dangerouse ie. exposed conductive parts, this is one of a number of many problems. The manager is at the point where he is ready to get the pub closed until the place is made safe and wants to know who he can report this to (annonamously) who will have the power to force the owners to make the place safe.
 
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He could report to the licensing authority, the fire service or environmental health all of whom have an interest in safety in public buildings. Whether the brewery would take any notice of him shutting the pub till they do something about the state of the place is open for discussion because they will still want their rent from him on a weekly/monthly basis.
 

topquark

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Arms
He could report to the licensing authority, the fire service or environmental health all of whom have an interest in safety in public buildings. Whether the brewery would take any notice of him shutting the pub till they do something about the state of the place is open for discussion because they will still want their rent from him on a weekly/monthly basis.
Was gonna say similar Trev. But it may just force the brewery into selling it up for redevelopment if there's no chance of a license being granted for it. :(
 
H

Hiddo

There are lots o people he could report it to:

HSE might be a good place to start (safety of employees etc)

Licensing Dept at the local council (safety of punters)

He should really think about this though, he could well be out of a job and if he lives in the pub homeless if they shut it down.
 
D

Deleted member 9648

An EICR needs to be carried out.....this needs to be ordered by the owner.....an owner usually only orders an EICR when their insurance company insist.
Surely sorting the ceiling rose is a 5 minute job even for a Electrical Trainee.......cant you do it for a pint?
 
G

Guest55

So whats so serious that the place should be closed ? dodgy pool table light ?
Report it to
a. liscensing dept at local council
b. brewery
c. insurance company.
 
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  • #7
Thanks Trev
He has told the brewery but they seem to be dragging their feet, ie the message has been passed to the area mager to themaintenance to the blah blah blaht etc. I will suggest Enviromental health .
 
Pubs are notorious for having bad electrical installations, I've worked in lots and found things that are truly appalling
 

ruston

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There are lots o people he could report it to:

HSE might be a good place to start (safety of employees etc)

Licensing Dept at the local council (safety of punters)

He should really think about this though, he could well be out of a job and if he lives in the pub homeless if they shut it down.
Yes if he is making a good living he could maybe have the more urgent problems addressed himself. Pubs are usually a nightmare of mis mash of wiring additions and defective fittings and the like. Once closed it may never re-open.
 
D

Dave 85

Pubs are notorious for having bad electrical installations, I've worked in lots and found things that are truly appalling
I was about to say...
Has anyone ever seen a pub that didn't have a total mess of a wiring system, cos I havn't. Its all part of the fun of going out on the lash.
 
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  • #11
Wirepuller
I could do it for a pint but the ceiling rose is only the start and I dont want to be "associated" with the place as the owners would probably hold me liable.
 

topquark

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Thanks Trev
He has told the brewery but they seem to be dragging their feet, ie the message has been passed to the area mager to themaintenance to the blah blah blaht etc. I will suggest Enviromental health .
The brewery would normally give him a budget for such work. Giving him an idea of costs to rectify it would be a good start (at least he'll have something to approach the brewery with then).
 
1

1shortcircuit

HSE, Simple. If they're concerned at what they find they'll issue a rectification doo dah with a time period to get things resolved. If they don't then fines or even closure could be imposed.

The beauty with the HSE is ANYONE can report it anonymously knowing that it will get acted upon.
 
S

sparks1973

Hi all
The manager of my local has been begging the owners to do something about the state of the wiring in the pub, I am, as some would say a Electrical Trainee DI so know nothing on the regs regarding pubs. I have seen an open ceiling rose with a cable extended to the light over the pool table, this ceiling rose is in easy reach of an extended arm and therfore totally dangerouse ie. exposed conductive parts, this is one of a number of many problems. The manager is at the point where he is ready to get the pub closed until the place is made safe and wants to know who he can report this to (annonamously) who will have the power to force the owners to make the place safe.
well for a start wether or not it can be reached is neither here nor there....its a (1) for a start as placing out of reach would not apply to an area occupied by unskilled/uninstructed person/s not under supervision.....
 

ipf

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well for a start wether or not it can be reached is neither here nor there....its a (1) for a start as placing out of reach would not apply to an area occupied by unskilled/uninstructed person/s not under supervision.....
Especially ****heads:54:
 
A

Adam W

Provided you get the go ahead from whoever is paying the bill you could rectify the main problems such as the light above the pool table, then recommend and document everything else which you think needs doing.

It's all down to who's paying - if the property is owned by the brewery and a managed house the brewery should sort it all out.
Chances are if the decor is a bit outdated it's either a lease owned by the brewery who will still have an interest and could insist that the licensee sort it out if you were to have a word in their ear, or a freehouse in which case the licensee would be responsible for the whole lot, in which case you could speak to the local council who grant the license.

Depending on who you speak to they should realise that this guy needs to make a living and might say he can continue trading providing the works will be carried out within a certain timeframe.

It might be best to speak to the boss directly and express your concerns first - he/she might take you more seriously than someone who as far as they're concerned they pay to do the cleaning and stand behind the bar.
 
S

sparks1973

Provided you get the go ahead from whoever is paying the bill you could rectify the main problems such as the light above the pool table, then recommend and document everything else which you think needs doing.

It's all down to who's paying - if the property is owned by the brewery and a managed house the brewery should sort it all out.
Chances are if the decor is a bit outdated it's either a lease owned by the brewery who will still have an interest and could insist that the licensee sort it out if you were to have a word in their ear, or a freehouse in which case the licensee would be responsible for the whole lot, in which case you could speak to the local council who grant the license.

Depending on who you speak to they should realise that this guy needs to make a living and might say he can continue trading providing the works will be carried out within a certain timeframe.

It might be best to speak to the boss directly and express your concerns first - he/she might take you more seriously than someone who as far as they're concerned they pay to do the cleaning and stand behind the bar.
any 1s found would need sorting Adam before the general public were allowed in i would say.....
 
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sparks1973

No mate, any 1s found SHOULD be rectified before the public were allowed in but they won't be
well the insurance company wont be aware of it of course....not to mention the health & safety people.....but i understand where your coming from Trev....some might say its upto the client/person ordering the test/work as how to procede.....or not but when the public are involved....as they will be here....whole new game.....
 
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sparks1973

what i mean is an insurance company will insist that any remedials are carried out before the public have access.....
 
They may not, especially if they don't know about it. One thing you can bank on though, if there's a claim they will use it as a get out clause and refuse to pay out
 
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sparks1973

They may not, especially if they don't know about it. One thing you can bank on though, if there's a claim they will use it as a get out clause and refuse to pay out
oh aye....that card will be played....but then thats the landlords problem isn`t it....for not getting 1s and 2s sorted as found....
 
I went in to a pub last night and the doorman asked me if I had any weapons which obviously I didn't. He then asked me what I wanted, brick or baseball bat.
Sooth Shields man:)
 

ruston

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I went in to a pub last night and the doorman asked me if I had any weapons which obviously I didn't. He then asked me what I wanted, brick or baseball bat.
Sooth Shields man:)
Say no more then lol.:13:
 

growler

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Arms
Hi all
The manager of my local has been begging the owners to do something about the state of the wiring in the pub, I am, as some would say a Electrical Trainee DI so know nothing on the regs regarding pubs. I have seen an open ceiling rose with a cable extended to the light over the pool table, this ceiling rose is in easy reach of an extended arm and therfore totally dangerouse ie. exposed conductive parts, this is one of a number of many problems. The manager is at the point where he is ready to get the pub closed until the place is made safe and wants to know who he can report this to (annonamously) who will have the power to force the owners to make the place safe.
get an electrician to have a look mate
 
S

sparks1973

If you read my OP you will seeI am not asking how to fix it but who the pub manager can report the problem to becuase his boss wont do anything about it.
well if theres going to be covert `reporting` goin on col....then my advice would be to steer well clear of it fella......you never know...if and when it all needs sortin out you could go for that job....a load of remidials n all that so you dont want to be caught up in all this crap.....and dont forget...as a `competent person` you have clearly witnessed a dangerous situation...but did nothing.....
 

ruston

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well if theres going to be covert `reporting` goin on col....then my advice would be to steer well clear of it fella......you never know...if and when it all needs sortin out you could go for that job....a load of remidials n all that so you dont want to be caught up in all this crap.....and dont forget...as a `competent person` you have clearly witnessed a dangerous situation...but did nothing.....
Thats a sobering thought ( pun intended ) Also as I said earlier a not so good lawyer could have a field day with this type of litigation if anyone is seriously hurt or worse.
 
S

sparks1973

Thats a sobering thought ( pun intended ) Also as I said earlier a not so good lawyer could have a field day with this type of litigation if anyone is seriously hurt or worse.
danger notice..as Tel says...that way the relevent people have had this brought to their attention...it kind of passes it on.....like arse covering...
 

ruston

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It's tough on coleshaws as he's trying to help to get the right thing done. Pubs(certain types) are not making too much money these days and are cutting corners, it's as you say they are covering their asses till the #### hits the fan then some poor patsy get crucified.

I got called out on Friday night to a pub because no-one else was available, they had been told of the developing fault but did'nt do anything till the range went off. I think they all must be the same lol.
 
S

sparks1973

It's tough on coleshaws as he's trying to help to get the right thing done. Pubs(certain types) are not making too much money these days and are cutting corners, it's as you say they are covering their asses till the #### hits the fan then some poor patsy get crucified.

I got called out on Friday night to a pub because no-one else was available, they had been told of the developing fault but did'nt do anything till the range went off. I think they all must be the same lol.
well if the O/P plays this right...he may get any remedial works that need to be carried out...thats after an EICR he does identifies any non-conformance...he gets paid...and appears as the `white knight` in the local community....pub n all that lot..lol....
 

ruston

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well if the O/P plays this right...he may get any remedial works that need to be carried out...thats after an EICR he does identifies any non-conformance...he gets paid...and appears as the `white knight` in the local community....pub n all that lot..lol....
Heaven , free ale for life .
 
well if the O/P plays this right...he may get any remedial works that need to be carried out...thats after an EICR he does identifies any non-conformance...he gets paid...and appears as the `white knight` in the local community....pub n all that lot..lol....
Or..... he could be the guy who got the village local shut down.....
 

Des 56

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If he sets the complaints ball in motion,he could get the pub shut ouch
If he stays silent,he is an expert who did or said nothing, whilst the locals had a premature and possibly happy drunken death ouch again

The sparks lot is far from rosy
I think I would cover all my options, just drink the ale, learn first aid, then do the remedials after the funerals
 
S

sedgy34

you have took your eye off your glass mate,stay focused until the 6th pint
 

ruston

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If he sets the complaints ball in motion,he could get the pub shut ouch
If he stays silent,he is an expert who did or said nothing, whilst the locals had a premature and possibly happy drunken death ouch again

The sparks lot is far from rosy
I think I would cover all my options, just drink the ale, learn first aid, then do the remedials after the funerals
I find the biggest shock is when a pay for the round.
 
A

Adam W

any 1s found would need sorting Adam before the general public were allowed in i would say.....
Ideally yes, but the electrician who carries out the work will expect to be paid for it, the manager is unlikely to want/unable to pay out of his pocket and would probably get a bit of a telling-off if he were to suddenly decide to shut up shop indefinitely on the say-so of one of the regulars.
Saying 'it would need sorting' is all good and well, but it's more a case of speaking to the right person to get the wheels in motion.
 
S

sparks1973

Ideally yes, but the electrician who carries out the work will expect to be paid for it, the manager is unlikely to want/unable to pay out of his pocket and would probably get a bit of a telling-off if he were to suddenly decide to shut up shop indefinitely on the say-so of one of the regulars.
Saying 'it would need sorting' is all good and well, but it's more a case of speaking to the right person to get the wheels in motion.
indeed Adam....you can`t FORCE anyone to have works done they dont want doing.....which is why the danger notice is the way forward....at least then the relevent people with authority to order the test/works to be carried out have been made aware.....and the electrician who witnessed the dangerous state of affairs has covered himself by it......
 
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If he issues the danger notice it's him in the firing line from the locals if the worst happens and the place gets shut down but emails to environmental health, fire service and licencing authorities put him in the clear and are anonymous as they will not disclose who the tip off came from. All he has to do is keep a copy of the emails in his sent folder.
Another point worthy of consideration is the OP is a DI and therefore not fully conversant with installations in commercial premises. Another get out clause for him should he need it
 
I know a detective sergeant who knows his way around an installation. I was at college with him when we were serving our apprenticeships, then he jumped ship and joined the force.
He's looking at retiring next year with a nice fat pay off and a good pension, whereas I will still be doing the job I......love?
:)
 
S

sparks1973

I know a detective sergeant who knows his way around an installation. I was at college with him when we were serving our apprenticeships, then he jumped ship and joined the force.
He's looking at retiring next year with a nice fat pay off and a good pension, whereas I will still be doing the job I......love?
:)
but the good ship `electra` hasn`t sunk....yet
 
I know a detective sergeant who knows his way around an installation. I was at college with him when we were serving our apprenticeships, then he jumped ship and joined the force.
He's looking at retiring next year with a nice fat pay off and a good pension, whereas I will still be doing the job I......love?
:)
Plus, you have to still work on installations which are "criminal", whereas he got to arrest the b*****ds.
 
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