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Commercial Pumps /Controls

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K

karmannmann

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Help I am working on a Biomass with District heating I have a 3phase pump for the boiler to accumulator and a single phase shunt pump these are straight forward enough I think. The head scratcher is: I have a 3 phase pump which delivers the heat to a heat exchanger in the properties and a single phase standard c h pump after the heat exchanger circulating round the property this pump will come on with a timer lifestyle or equiv I will need both this pump and the 3phase delivery pump to come on at the same time which is 100 metres away how would i wire in a contactor or any other ideas?
 
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K

Knobhead

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
Can you do a drawing of the set up? I can't make head or tail of your description.
 
V

vaughant

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
As tony says diagram please but to wire in a contactor you'll need 3 phase in the top,three phase out to pump the other side of the contactor and a means of activating the "coil" of the contactor,usually labelled A1 with A2 being return.
We need to know coil voltages,output voltage from switching device etc.
Also have you worked with three phase before?
 
K

karmannmann

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Sorry Tony not very good when it comes to drawings and computers, Basically I have a programmable timer when it comes on the pump on the central heating will run but i need to send a signal to the other pump in the boiler house by relay to come on at the same time I know i will have to run a cable from the house to the boiler house but how do i wire this relay the pump in the boiler house is 3 phase.

Ive done a similar set up with the 2 pumps wired into the programmable timer but both were single phase.



Cheers
 
V

vaughant

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Karmannmann,you really need to know the coil voltage before you do anything fella,wiring it up is relatively straightforward as yes you do run a cable for the relay but if you get 5 core SWA you can do it through that.
Really need more details fella,have you got the relay details/pump etc.
Not being patronising but are you sure your experienced enough to do this?
 
K

karmannmann

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Yes just not done much on this before. The pump GrundfosTP 32-150/2
0.31 L/s128 kpa
2865 RPMStainless steelCast Iron
40 C

10 Bar32 mm
0.37 Kw
50 Hz
3 x 220-240 D/380-415 Y V1.74/1.00A
490-530 %



Nothing on the relay yet but will find out.

Cheers
 
S

Silly Sausage

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Help I am working on a Biomass with District heating I have a 3phase pump for the boiler to accumulator and a single phase shunt pump these are straight forward enough I think. The head scratcher is: I have a 3 phase pump which delivers the heat to a heat exchanger in the properties and a single phase standard c h pump after the heat exchanger circulating round the property this pump will come on with a timer lifestyle or equiv I will need both this pump and the 3phase delivery pump to come on at the same time which is 100 metres away how would i wire in a contactor or any other ideas?
The way I see it is...there's a remote heat source with a 3P pump (Pump A) supplying a Local Heat Exchanger (HX) with several 1P pumps (Pump B,C,D...) serving each dwelling.

Some options to play around with:
1: Pump A runs continually keeping HX up to temp, Pump B kicks in on demand. Costly to run!
2: As 1, but HX has Hi/Low temperature sensors to control Pump A.
3: Pump A only kicks in when Pump B powers up, probably cheapest but there would be a delay while HX gets up to temp.
 

snowhead

-
Mentor
The way I see it is...there's a remote heat source with a 3P pump (Pump A) supplying a Local Heat Exchanger (HX) with several 1P pumps (Pump B,C,D...) serving each dwelling.

Some options to play around with:
1: Pump A runs continually keeping HX up to temp, Pump B kicks in on demand. Costly to run!
2: As 1, but HX has Hi/Low temperature sensors to control Pump A.
3: Pump A only kicks in when Pump B powers up, probably cheapest but there would be a delay while HX gets up to temp.
Not forgetting there is pump B,C,D,,,,,



I'm also not being patronising but it is obvious you aren't experienced enough to do this, and should have some on site professional help


 
Piggyback a relay (230V coil) across the CH pump, will give you a volt free contact. Bring control voltage from 3ph pumphouse through voltfree contact and back to 3ph pump contactor. Personally I would be considering some form of interlocking to make sure pumps are running correctly?
 
K

Knobhead

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Does the HX pump need to run whenever a domestic pump is running?
If it does then multiple relays will have to be fed from each domestic pump. If the HX pump can be controlled by high and low stats it would be the better way to go.
 
O

oldtimer

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
District heating supplying a number of houses that may or may not require heating so should this pump not have a fixed bypass on it with a return temperature cut out . ie if the demand goes to zero the system will switch the heating off

Domestic systems have the same thing ie the room where the control stat will not have a trv on the radiator plus the towel rail in the bathroom will be the same so the pump does not dead head as they say.

Why do you want the zone pumps to switch on at the same time
 
S

Silly Sausage

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Alright, expand option 2, Pump A only runs to keep HX within set limits regardless of the heat Pumps B | C | D... are pulling from HX.

I'm only a Tech, not a design engineer! :)
 

snowhead

-
Mentor
If the properties are paying for the heat, they will want heat on demand, so the 3ph hX pump will have to run all the time, subject to control within the boiler unit on the return temp being over a preset temp limit as above.

If the properties are rented including heat, they will still want heat on demand.

If there are more than half a dozen properties the probability is that at least one will require heat, so the HX pump will be on constant demand.

There is no requirement for the single phase heating pumps to enable the HX pump.
 
S

Silly Sausage

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
If the properties are paying for the heat, they will want heat on demand, so the 3ph hX pump will have to run all the time, subject to control within the boiler unit on the return temp being over a preset temp limit as above.
Fair point. With suitably lagged feed pipes, the heat loss could be kept low.
I would probably have a wide range on the return temp, no need for Pump A to continually run.
It's only domestic, so I think a few minutes delay isn't really a problem. Not as if it's Chemical etc situation where much finer control is needed.

Engineering, balancing the ideal solution against cost.
 
V

vaughant

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
Think this maybe a touch specialist for the op,would be worth him getting someone into design/commission the system with perhaps him intalling it to keep costs lower?
 
K

Knobhead

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Without further input from the OP we can guess until the cows come home.
 

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