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pushrod

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If you want to put a spur on a socket that is part of a ring that is connected to an old CU with no rcd protection would it be ok to surface mount inside some mini trunking?
If you are putting just one double socket on the spur does it need to be fused? and if it was two double sockets you would need it to be fused? There's only about 5 double sockets on the whole ring and it has a 32A mcb. cheers.
 
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one double socket doesnt need fusing down but two would
if you surface mount as you say then it is ok as only the new part of the circuit has to be to 17th ed
 
if you physically alter the circuit by adding an additional socket you are responsible for ensuring that circuit complies with regs.
you need to put it on an rcd or rcbo
 
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  • #4
Your new socket still needs to be RCD protected even thou the cable is run in trunking.

All socket outlets less than 20A must be protected with 30mA

Mark
 
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acat

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  • #5
Agree with the above the second you touch a circuit you assume full responsibility for it and it must comply with 17th edition.

Chris
 
Agree with the above the second you touch a circuit you assume full responsibility for it and it must comply with 17th edition.

Chris
chris can you clarify
ie replace broken socket
swap a light fitting
fit a dimmer
would these also mean whole circ to comply with 17th
thanks
 
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pushrod

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  • #7
Just out of interest really as i know it would be better to protect the whole circuit rather than just a spur ... but if it was an old board with rewireable fuses that couldn't take an rcbo would it be ok to put an rcd fused unit for the spur.Or is it a case that you would have to say to a potential customer no it can't be done without a CU change - you have to stick with your unsafe trailing flex.

Edit :i thought surface mounted (or below 50mm of the surface) didn't need rcd protection
 
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AMST09

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  • #8
Only the extended part of the circuit has to be RCD protected
And pushrod you could just pull it out of the fuseboard and put an enclosure with RCD in next to the fuseboard
 
Only the extended part of the circuit has to be RCD protected
And pushrod you could just pull it out of the fuseboard and put an enclosure with RCD in next to the fuseboard

this is what i said at the start but am unsure now because it has been questioned
 
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pushrod

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  • #10
Only the extended part of the circuit has to be RCD protected
And pushrod you could just pull it out of the fuseboard and put an enclosure with RCD in next to the fuseboard
Seems to be some disagreement on here as to what is right :confused:

Thanks for the suggestion about an rcd in enclosure next to fuseboard, hadn't thought of that - would you run it from the same fuse way?
 
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acat

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  • #11
I may be wrong but as I understand it if you alter a circuit you are responsible for the entire circuit as the last one to touch it.

If this is the case then 411.3.3 would apply "socket outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20A that are for use by ordinary persons and are intended for general use" this is in relation to additional protection of an RCD.

It can also be argued that providing the property is in the same or better conditon than when we went in but I think thats the building regs?

Can anyone resolve this one for all of us.

Chris
 
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Spudnik

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  • #13
chris can you clarify
ie replace broken socket
swap a light fitting
fit a dimmer
would these also mean whole circ to comply with 17th
thanks
No, as this is classed as maintenance.
 
B

baldsparkies

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  • #15
Page 4 of the big red book under introduction to BS7671 2008 imply's that an existing circuit installed to an earlier version of BS7671 may not comply with current regs,but does not imply that said circuit is neccasarily unsafe. Its open to interpritation but I would take it that the original circuit remains and thats ok, with rcd protection being applied to the additional circuit. I guess your back to not leaving the installation any less safe than before you started. The trouble with these new regs is it takes a while before the grey areas are wheened out and given clarity,hence amendmants. In the meantime we are left guessing just exactly what means what.:confused:
 
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