PV immersion/heater switch - SOLIC

[glbell]

Does anyone have any feedback on the SOLIC 200 (especially if anyine has installed it)
I would also like to know if a oil radiator could be linked into the HW circuit so that I can either switch between HW or heating and once the HW is at temperature then it would divert to heating.

Has anyone plumbed a heat store into their Oil CH so you can divert PV electricity to either HW or CH ?
Any thoughts?
thanks Graeme.

 

[Worcester]

I would also like to know if a oil radiator could be linked into the HW circuit so that I can either switch between HW or heating and once the HW is at temperature then it would divert to heating.

An ImmerSun can so long as the radiator is a purely resistive element with a NON-electronic thermostat.

Has anyone plumbed a heat store into their Oil CH so you can divert PV electricity to either HW or CH ?
Any thoughts?

Got three ImmerSun's controlling 18kW of Immersions into a 2500L heat store to porvide DHW and heating, also powered by a biomass boiler for summer backup and winter heating (reduces the cycling) heats stores don't work so well with efficient condensing gas boilers where cycling isn't an issue.

Also got another 6 ImmerSuns powering 30kW into a 2500L heat store, also heated by 18 solar thermal (NOT Thermodynamic) panels and oil to provide DHW and central heating.

Got another single ImmerSun (and 3kW Immersion) with 8 thermal panels and 2 x 30kW modern condensing oil boilers into a 400L store to provide DHW and heating and a swimming pool as a heat dump for the thermal panels.

Can be done, need to think differently not cheap. If you're going to add a thermal store, you really should add solar thermal if you can as well.

The two large ones above nearly always have that full spare capacity on the systems, not just occassionally.

 

[EWP]

Hi Guys,

I thought you might like a U-Tube video of SOLiC 200 stopping an Electric Meter Disk dead.

SOLiC 200 stops Electricity Meter Disk dead. - YouTube

I would love to see any other of these devices do this.

Best Regards

EWP

 

[The Solar King]

Got three ImmerSun's controlling 18kW of Immersions into a 2500L heat store to porvide DHW and heating, also powered by a biomass boiler for summer backup and winter heating (reduces the cycling) heats stores don't work so well with efficient condensing gas boilers where cycling isn't an issue.

Also got another 6 ImmerSuns powering 30kW into a 2500L heat store, also heated by 18 solar thermal (NOT Thermodynamic) panels and oil to provide DHW and central heating.

Got another single ImmerSun (and 3kW Immersion) with 8 thermal panels and 2 x 30kW modern condensing oil boilers into a 400L store to provide DHW and heating and a swimming pool as a heat dump for the thermal panels.

Can be done, need to think differently not cheap. If you're going to add a thermal store, you really should add solar thermal if you can as well.

The two large ones above nearly always have that full spare capacity on the systems, not just occassionally.

Is this lot on Worcester Towers? I remember in a thread some time ago (maybe even last year) you mentioning looking at alternatives to reduce your somewhat substantial oil bill - is this your solution? Seem to remember you had a reasonably extensive PV array already. What proportion of your space heating is provided by this configuration?

Do you feel this would be a viable route if you were selling it to a paying customer? Would it work in a colder climate, eg north of the border? I ask as every solution I have looked at for space heating using solar (PV or thermal) falls down as soon as you are north of the Wash. Those who make claims for their equipment never have data for more northerly climes (eg Surface Power). Use of Thermodynamic panels for space heating was also quickly discredited. I have been unimpressed with the seasonal performance of ASHP when it matters most (middle of winter).

A cost effective renewable space heating solution is still the holy grail. Love to hear how it is all performing.

 

[danesol]

Does anyone have any feedback on the SOLIC 200 (especially if anyine has installed it)
I would also like to know if a oil radiator could be linked into the HW circuit so that I can either switch between HW or heating and once the HW is at temperature then it would divert to heating.

Has anyone plumbed a heat store into their Oil CH so you can divert PV electricity to either HW or CH ?
Any thoughts?
thanks Graeme.

They seem overpriced to me !!!!!!

 

[EWP]

They seem overpriced to me !!!!!!

Hi Danesol.

Never had that said to us before, I would be interested to hear why you think that Danesol, and what price did you get offered one for from who please? If you rather PM that info no problem.

It does come with a class leading 10 year RTB replacement warrantee, is designed to last 25 years, and has a zero threshold.

 

[danesol]

Been offered alternative units for alot less

You can even order rhe Solar Immersion for £249 online via their website right now which although maynot have the 10yr rtb warranty like yours, shouldnt have an issue as it has no moving parts or contacts afaik

http://solarimmersion.co.uk/

 

[EWP]

Hi Danesol,

With the greatest respect not all units are the same. Build quality / Technical support / Performance levels / design life etc etc all come into it.

Am I right in thinking as all these devices are permanent fitments on a network, therefore legally need to be fitted by a qualified electrician? So what are doing being sold direct?

We now have 100's sold with many happy customers and are the in only ones being sold though SEGEN and CCL for instance.

Our units have gone through comprehensive CE testing, 18 mths of premarket testing and development and are being fitted in the Social housing sector.

 

[EWP]

Been offered alternative units for alot less

You can even order rhe Solar Immersion for £249 online via their website right now which although maynot have the 10yr rtb warranty like yours, shouldnt have an issue as it has no moving parts or contacts afaik

LCD displays have a 7-8 year design life.

I can not find any mention of CE compliance but i would guess they must have it?

The support system is via email.

You get what you pay for Danesol imho.

 

[danesol]

Hi Danesol,

With the greatest respect not all units are the same. Build quality / Technical support / Performance levels / design life etc etc all come into it.

Am I right in thinking as all these devices are permanent fitments on a network, therefore legally need to be fitted by a qualified electrician? So what are doing being sold direct?

We now have 100's sold with many happy customers and are the in only ones being sold though SEGEN and CCL for instance.

Our units have gone through comprehensive CE testing, 18 mths of premarket testing and development and are being fitted in the Social housing sector.

LCD displays have a 7-8 year design life.

I can not find any mention of CE compliance but i would guess they must have it?

The support system is via email.

You get what you pay for Danesol imho.

Firstly, I dont really care about build quality as its going to be in a cupboard and as long as it doesnt fall apart - it doesnt really matter, if I wanted a golf I'd buy a golf - lol

Technical support - I hope I dont need it and if it doesnt work or stops working it will be returned for replacement, anybody who over sells Technical Support on such an item must feel that issues are going to arise.

Performance - hopefully all these units offer a similar performance and afaik the only subtle difference is the switch-on threshold, which on many units can be preset and how it handles electrical harmonics.

Longevity - Yes hopefully it will as last as long as possible, but in todays markets paying more doesnt neceassarily mean it will last longer

Segan and CCL for example are businesses and there to make as much margin as possible - they arent acting in the consumers real interest - merely supplying to market and making a profit from that service

Now the interesting quote - CE Conformity....
""CE marking cannot be considered a "safety mark" for consumers. CE marking is a self-certification scheme. Retailers sometimes refer to products as "CE approved", but they have misunderstood the scheme. However, certain categories of products must be type-tested against specific technical standards by an independent body: CE marking in itself does not indicate that this has been done.""

So in essence and using a simile here, no need for an expensive JCB digger to plant a rose when a £1.99 hand trowel will suffice......

But I have to agree as a whole in this day and age - you mostly get what you pay for...........

 

[Dee]

What is the best solar immersion controller out in the market does anyone know?????
i been reading about ABSwitch solar utiliser SU001 and the IMMERSUN but dont know which ones are the best to monitor the extra electricity your PV generates will be used in the house for heating your hot water and not using electricity off the grid.


Can anyone tell me please about this??????

- - - Updated - - -

Also is there an immersion controller that could monitor the electricity produce from the 4kw pv system to the house i.e how much is being used in the house together with monitoring how much is being used from the grid to your house.




Some one please tell me thank you.

 

[danesol]

What is the best solar immersion controller out in the market does anyone know?????
i been reading about ABSwitch solar utiliser SU001 and the IMMERSUN but dont know which ones are the best to monitor the extra electricity your PV generates will be used in the house for heating your hot water and not using electricity off the grid.


Can anyone tell me please about this??????

- - - Updated - - -

Also is there an immersion controller that could monitor the electricity produce from the 4kw pv system to the house i.e how much is being used in the house together with monitoring how much is being used from the grid to your house.




Some one please tell me thank you.

Best in what way - define "best" ......................

Thats basically how they "all" currently work .............. as stated in your last paragraph by use of a sensor clamp by your DNO electric meter. For more info on this just do a simple search on this forum using "immersion" for example - a few threads explain things and refer to manufacturer sites which also explain how their product works such as;

http://www.intelligent-immersion.co.uk/

http://solarimmersion.co.uk/

http://www.immersun.co.uk/

 

[EWP]

What is the best solar immersion controller out in the market does anyone know?????
i been reading about ABSwitch solar utiliser SU001 and the IMMERSUN but dont know which ones are the best to monitor the extra electricity your PV generates will be used in the house for heating your hot water and not using electricity off the grid.


Can anyone tell me please about this??????

- - - Updated - - -

Also is there an immersion controller that could monitor the electricity produce from the 4kw pv system to the house i.e how much is being used in the house together with monitoring how much is being used from the grid to your house.




Some one please tell me thank you.

The Solic 200 Earthwise Products Ltd does exactly that.

It does it by monitoring if electricity is being exported from the home and then offers power to the immersion heater, changing the level of power bring offered depending on the amount available, and to the maximum rating of the immersion heating element. It checks the power levels 20 times a second so is very accurate and able to hold the export effectively at zero.

Below is a link to U tube video of it working with an old style electricity meter with a disk.

SOLiC 200 stops Electricity Meter Disk dead. - YouTube

I think we are the best, but I would as I am the manufacturer of the Solic 200.

Best regards.

 

[solar warrrior]

What modulation system is the Solic using to dim the immersion and how does it meet relevant EMC and flicker standards as I believe this is tricky in this market?

 

[EWP]

The SOLiC works by varying the proportion of on-time to off-time using 'very' fast power switching, mathematically creating a continuously moving average output power over 5 seconds approx. The resulting RMS voltage fed to the immersion element varies from zero to full mains depending on the instantaneous decision made by the microprocessor.

EMC compliance is achieved by judicious use of 'snubber' networks and 'capacitor decoupling', along with carefully considered circuit board component positioning and track layout. The sealed metal enclosure traps any stray radio signals inside. The power requirement to run the unit takes advantage of noisy mains and harmonics. A switched capacitor filter arrangement is used to keep the power factor close to 1.0.

Harmonic compliance is achieved by taking advantage of deliberately introduced prime number switching points (spread spectrum rotating vectors), averaged over every 200ms or 10 cycles, as specified by the standard. Harmonics are mathematically cancelled out resulting in low level high frequency noise which is then filtered out.

The low voltage directive is met, again, by carefully considered physical planning, spacing components and tracks of high potential difference to ensure reliability and safety even under abusive conditions. Thermal control and electrical safety are also controlled by careful choice of material properties such as the anodised aluminium enclosure to conduct heat, resist moisture corrosion (condensation), physical impact and vermin or insect ingression. )

In mode 2, The current direction flow to (or from) the house is measured in a similar way to how a standard electrical meter does it. The instantaneous voltage, current and power factors are measured and calculated. The microprocessor mathematically integrates the readings every few seconds to determine which way the current is flowing. It then uses a proprietary control algorithm to change the current level needed to to offer the Immersion circuit to hold the energy export at zero.


In all the whole process works exactly like an industry standard power factor correcting system, that uses load resistors as a power dump instead of inductive or capacitative control.

And of course as you can see it works!

 

[solar warrrior]

And of course as you can see it works!

May work but you are only compliant to Class A EMC standards which is an industrial level. Is it not illegal to connect Class A equipment to houses?

 

[SibertSolar]

This just got interesting

 

[fredfred2]

May work but you are only compliant to Class A EMC standards which is an industrial level. Is it not illegal to connect Class A equipment to houses?

Under 16A is class A.

This has got interesting. Agreed. I've never seen a manufacturer disclose details about how their stuff operates internally. I'd love to know more about the control side, about how the "algorythm" works (whatever that is!).

There is a lot of chatter about standards compliance and stuff that I've been following. I've installed a few different units over the last few months, and apart from some problems with some Immersun units, as far as I can tell, none cause any flicker, radio interference or wierd behaviour anywhere. But I did once accidentally leave a ring main connected to the immersion heater with a TA Wooldridge controller and all sorts of wierd stuff started happening around the house. My mistake.... At least I didn't break anything!

Isn't amazing that Immersun have apparently sold over 4000 units. Their system must be compliant or else the DNO's would be jumping up and down on them. If it isn't, there will be a huge legal case or 'recall'. That would be interesting. Mind you I'll probably make some extra cash to fix/replace them if they are not legal!

Someone emailed me stuff about the standards a while back which I just dug out, and from what I understand, all appliances under 16A are classified as type A: (quote from the standard)

There are 4 different classes in the EN 61000-3-2 that have different limit values:
Class A: Balanced 3-phase equipment, household appliances excluding equipment identified as class D,
tools, excluding portable tools, dimmers for incandescent lamps, audio equipment,
and ALL other equipment, except that stated in one of the following classes.
Class B: Portable tools, arc welding equipment which is not professional equipment
Class C: Lighting equipment.
Class D: PC, PC monitors, radio, or TV receivers. Input power under 600 W.

When I sign stuff off, I have to be able to quote which classification, power factor, rating, leakage and balance (for 3 ph) the appliance is. Every grid qualified leccy knows this stuff............ Not sure about the electronics stuff though.

-fred

 

[EWP]

The SOLiC 200 is fully EC compliant for use in domestic EU properties. :90:

We provided the relevant CE supporting test data when requested by one of distributors before they stocked us, so it is also third party checked. :icon4:


I think you are muddling EU and US compliance up there Solar?


Maybe not quite so interesting then?

 

[Steve_rutland]

I'm looking at using a unit like this to heat a vented direct tank then pump the water through a plate heat exchanger to give me hot water rather than using the combi all the time. Interesting......yep