Pyro - testing for lack of 'continuity'

[JayJ]

(hi - new here, not a sparky but looking to pay for a test involving Pyro)

Been in an LA flat in London for some time, never had problems with electrics - all pyro (flat built c.1970).

LA recently sent 'inspectors' into the building to do a Periodic Test etc., to see if full/partial rewire required.

They came into mine, changed fusebox to new one (losing power to my alarm - had to get them back) + put in an IP rated light in bathroom (got wires wrong way round, no lights further on the circuit worked) + added a mains smoke alarm to my hall light (when I turned the light off to go to bed, it stayed partially 'on' - it was one of those new, energy efficient bulbs, so that meant that one 'loop' had a small but definite 'glow').

Well, after a phone call they came back fixed all, but then pronounced that there was a 'lack of continuity' which, after quickly checking all the sockets, they decided could be anywhere, and would therefore be suggesting a rewire. Unfortunately, a rewire here means just plastic conduit being slapped everywhere, which I want to avoid.

So, the bottom line is that I would like to pay for a qualified electrician (with experience of pyro) to come in and give me a second opinion. Any extra advice from the forum would also be helpful.

By the way, a neighbour gave me one of those cheapo 'plug-it-in and read-three-lights' type testers, which I tried out of curiosity - all sockets at the moment come up as 'L&N Reverse' if that means anything?!

Thanks.

 

[vernam616]

Oh dear

Chances are them useless sparks the LA sent have incorrectly connected the mains pyro in the db, or the pyro is incorrectly identified, thus giving a incorrect connection causing l&n reverse

Do you have a cooker circuit if so does the switch have a socket outlet on? If so try plugging that tester in and see if its the same, most of all call the LA back to sort it but tell them to send a proper electrician

 

[Silly Sausage]

After my recent run in with the council, it reads to me as their 'Engineers' have ballsed up and gives them yet another excuse to extract more money out of somebody.

 

[Des 56]

QUOTE=JayJ;503796](hi - new here, not a sparky but looking to pay for a test involving Pyro)

Been in an LA flat in London for some time, never had problems with electrics - all pyro (flat built c.1970).

LA recently sent 'inspectors' into the building to do a Periodic Test etc., to see if full/partial rewire required.

They came into mine, changed fusebox to new one (losing power to my alarm - had to get them back) + put in an IP rated light in bathroom (got wires wrong way round, no lights further on the circuit worked) + added a mains smoke alarm to my hall light (when I turned the light off to go to bed, it stayed partially 'on' - it was one of those new, energy efficient bulbs, so that meant that one 'loop' had a small but definite 'glow').
Was there a energy efficient lamp there before the work was done?

Well, after a phone call they came back fixed all, but then pronounced that there was a 'lack of continuity' which, after quickly checking all the sockets, they decided could be anywhere, and would therefore be suggesting a rewire. Unfortunately, a rewire here means just plastic conduit being slapped everywhere, which I want to avoid.
Why was this concern with continuity not made aware to you at the time of testing,after all, the periodic test is supposed to be carried out for this type of assurance

So, the bottom line is that I would like to pay for a qualified electrician (with experience of pyro) to come in and give me a second opinion. Any extra advice from the forum would also be helpful.
It may not be the persuasive tool you seek

By the way, a neighbour gave me one of those cheapo 'plug-it-in and read-three-lights' type testers, which I tried out of curiosity - all sockets at the moment come up as 'L&N Reverse' if that means anything?!
Its not much more than an indication of supply at the outlet,no use for circuit test purposes,but i would be surprised if there was reverse polarity and been left as is


Thanks.[/QUOTE]

You may well be doing the right thing by having a competent person to do another test and inspection,but be warned these authorities are obstinate so and sos
Make sure the person that does your testing is competent,it is very very important
The vast majority of these inspections are done by "electricians" that should not be undertaking this type of work, you could end up having what the vast majority of these inspections actually are, and thats an expensive sheet of toilet paper

 

[telectrix]

could they have reversed the tails when changing the CU. this is a potentially lethal situation and needs to be rectified immediately. get a competent spsrk in and send the council the bill. if you post your location, sure on of us will be close to you.

 

[JayJ]

Hiya - thanks for the msg, even if a bit alarming!

I am located in London, East End and happy to pay out of my own pocket for a proper check by a qualified spark, though I suspect that council will say they want to do the actual repairs themselves. At the moment the only check has been by the contractor who made several mistakes anyway, so I definitely would feel happier with a second opinion.

Cheers

could they have reversed the tails when changing the CU. this is a potentially lethal situation and needs to be rectified immediately. get a competent spsrk in and send the council the bill. if you post your location, sure on of us will be close to you.

 

[JayJ]

Hi - funnily enough, before I moved into the flat the council contractors put in an electric shower for the old dear here then, and decided to disconnect the electric cooker + socket box (no probs for me, we are on gas for cooking).

I called on a couple of neighbours with the tester gadget, and they all come up with three lights ("Correct/Fuske OK") unlike me - ALL of my sockets (which are unswitched) come up as just 1st light "L&N Reverse"

Oh dear

Chances are them useless sparks the LA sent have incorrectly connected the mains pyro in the db, or the pyro is incorrectly identified, thus giving a incorrect connection causing l&n reverse

Do you have a cooker circuit if so does the switch have a socket outlet on? If so try plugging that tester in and see if its the same, most of all call the LA back to sort it but tell them to send a proper electrician

 

[oldtimer]

Lack of continuity sounds more like a slack connection

Energy saving light bulbs will start to fade when they get older and you are useing them a lot so say the lounge or the hall kitchen also people complain that ESB are too dull or dim. This is because when you want to replace a 60watt bulb this is equal to a 11watt ESB but this gives of about 52watts hence why people say they are dull so the rule of thumb I use is go for the next size up ie instead of 11w go for the 14w job sorted .
One last point dont way for a ESB to go when you see it going black where the white tube enters the base then change it

 

[JayJ]

>>Was there a energy efficient lamp there before the work was done? <<

Yes. In fact, they tried just putting an old type bulb in and saying 'well, that isn't lighting up when the switch is off...' - so I had to insist they got the thing working right with energy efficient bulb.

>><Why was this concern with continuity not made aware to you at the time of testing,after all, the periodic test is supposed to be carried out for this type of assurance<<

I really don't know. Some flats here have been tested, fusebox changed and totally rewired (which means huge plastic conduit everywhere) but others have just had fusebox changed and pyro left intact. Bit of a lottery it feels like.

The first tester bloke came in and said there was a lack of continuity (had a Fluke thing with him). Then the two sparks (well, make that one and one apprentice type guy, I think) came and replaced fusebox, installed IP light in bathroom, smoke alarm attached to hall light

Then they checked all sockets quickly, said they couldn't find the lack of continuity and said that probably meant they would have to come back for full rewire.


>>It may not be the persuasive tool you seek<<

Understand, though really now want it for peace of mind anyway - given this apparent L&N thing

>>Its not much more than an indication of supply at the outlet,no use for circuit test purposes,but i would be surprised if there was reverse polarity and been left as is<<
See other msg - have called on neighbours (both refurbed and non refurbed) and they all show OK (three lights) agains my One light - L&N reverse


>><You may well be doing the right thing by having a competent person to do another test and inspection,but be warned these authorities are obstinate so and sos
Make sure the person that does your testing is competent,it is very very important
The vast majority of these inspections are done by "electricians" that should not be undertaking this type of work, you could end up having what the vast majority of these inspections actually are, and thats an expensive sheet of toilet paper<

Thanks for the advice, yes - that's why I posted here because it was a relief to see people who obviously knew about pyro. Our flats are with an arms-length management company, so - depending on the department - you can reason with them.

Cheers

 

[JayJ]

No, it wasn't a 'fading energy saver' situation, that's what they thought when I first explained it.

When I turned the hall light switch off... the light continued to draw power i.e. one loop of the bulb was (dimly) lit. It was because one of the sparks had got the wiring wrong when they attached the smoke alarm to the hall light, apparently (think the older guy put him right).

Lack of continuity sounds more like a slack connection

Energy saving light bulbs will start to fade when they get older and you are useing them a lot so say the lounge or the hall kitchen also people complain that ESB are too dull or dim. This is because when you want to replace a 60watt bulb this is equal to a 11watt ESB but this gives of about 52watts hence why people say they are dull so the rule of thumb I use is go for the next size up ie instead of 11w go for the 14w job sorted .
One last point dont way for a ESB to go when you see it going black where the white tube enters the base then change it

 

[Eggster71]

Pyro can be tricky, it dosen't take a lot to damage the terminal ends i.epots and glands as they are basically threaded onto soft copper. if this happens in a wall for example it's going to be near impossible to repair in situ.

The lack of continuity and L/N reversal scenario sounds to me like one and the same thing. They've not bothered to identify the line and neutral when they changed the board ( asuming they were correct beforehand). A standard continuity test involves linking line to earth and testing the resistance. Obviously if the line and neutral are reversed then there won't be the link hence no continuity.

Having said that though it's also highly possible that there is a poor earth continuity where the pyro's terminated to the sockets as well. Rusting of backboxes is pretty common.

 

[J&M Electrical]

I would also suggest the L-N problem is the main tails. But since you had them back and they connected the bathroom light up the wrong way round, once the tails are changed this may need rectifying back to how it was.

 

[Engineer54]

Pyro can be tricky, it doesn't take a lot to damage the terminal ends i.epots and glands as they are basically threaded onto soft copper.

Your making MICC cable sound like it's a weak cabling system, which it most definitely isn't!!
I've never yet, come across a pot pulling or falling off a cable. ...If the copper is so soft as you put it, why do you need a potting tool to thread the pot on to the cable in the first place??

Whereas your thoughts on rusted back boxes makes much more sense as a cause of loss of earth continuity, but only at the effected points!!

 

[RISElectrical]

They could have damaged a pot while messing with them however as E54 said pyro is far from weak. Will out last us all

 

[Knobhead]

Will out last us all

I’m having my coffin wired in pyro, I’ll need a reading light in there!

 

[High Tower]

Jesus Tony, your not going anywhere yet man!!, and when you do can you leave your brain here, we will probably need it

 

[oldtimer]

I’m having my coffin wired in pyro, I’ll need a reading light in there!

And if you get cremated then you can keep reading knowing the pyro will not fail

 

[Knobhead]

And if you get cremated then you can keep reading knowing the pyro will not fail

You **** my keyboards full of cider now!

 

[High Tower]

I think it would be more fun to wire his coffin in T&E And sticky back mini trunking!!, that would really wind his spirit up!!

 

[oldtimer]

Aye Tony thought that because he bought his plot that was ok but the family have sold it to Barrats so they can put a block of flats on it.


PS my house was buit in 1956 and was wired all in pyro with the light circuits still intact and as clear as a bell